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Quote:
Originally Posted by inanna_tarot View Post
When should you do a horary chart about your own questions?

This is something I consider a lot, as there are a few questions I have that I would enjoy a horary answer about (or at least the practice of using horary and astrology!) but I sometimes feel that I don't 'feel' the question enough for it to be valid. I feel sometimes my concerns are too fleeting (although important) to cast a chart, thinking that it would be invalid or not heart-felt enough to the astrological standard to get a reply.

Would you say the need to ask a question/need the answer is the same as when you are consulting the tarot cards? Or does it have to be a real mind-busting question that you are really incredibly desperate to get answers about?
The short answer is when you feel the need to do a chart (and that also supplies the time and date). If you don't see a need then you won't do a horary.

The longer answer really depends on you - some people cast their own horaries quite frequently - daily in some cases. I don't do horaries on my own questions very frequently maybe every few months and usually for something I see as quite pressing. Strangely I cast them for my wife more frequently. If you think a chart will be helpful, no matter how fleeting the issue might be then cast one. Mine tend to be about lost items because I have a terrible memory.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nytebugg View Post
will we be creating individual threads for this or will it be one thread?


on the subject for questions lets say you have a romance one. Would a viable question be "will I have a serious relationship in the next 6 months" or does it need to be more specific to a person such as "will I have a serious relationship with Joe in the next 6 months"? or are both types questions valid?
I hadn't really thought that one through but from the interest already it might be better to do separate threads rather than people having to wait their turn. The question might lose relevance in some instances if the delay is excessive. The downside is that there might be a number of threads going at any one time and the learning process may become fragmentary. So I'd like to keep this thread going so that I can post on issues that effect more than one person or are important issues in horary. It means I might have to put links into the threads but whilst there's interst I don't want to let it just evaporate.

I think I'd like to take the first one or two here, simply to provide some guidance for everyone else in terms of procedures. Thereafter people can have a go at their own and I'll comment. I also hope people will comment on each other's threads/horaries because that will also help in the learning process.

Tomorrow I'll post the considerations before judgement and then we can get into those initial horaries. So perhaps someone can ask a question at that point and I'll do a worked example explaining the reasoning behind each step. Then someone else can post their own reading in this thread and we'll talk it through. Thereafter if people feel confident enough to launch their own thread that will be fine. For those who are not, this thread will still remain active.
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Sounds great. I am really looking forward to this.
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I agree that separate threads for each person's question is best. But I think we should start the thread title the same so they are easily recognized and found. Something like

HDIY: blah blah question
or
Horary DIY: blah blah question

What do you think?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalliope View Post
I agree that separate threads for each person's question is best. But I think we should start the thread title the same so they are easily recognized and found. Something like

HDIY: blah blah question
or
Horary DIY: blah blah question

What do you think?
Yes that's a good idea. I'd go for the second, simply because a search for Horary DIY would bring up the main thread as well as the associated ones.
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The Considerations Before Judgement


We have the chart but is it a valid chart for the question? The Considerations are supposed to help determine whether the chart is fit to be judged. However some Astrologers, such as John Frawley argue that they are a fiction. used in the past to enable Astrologers to dodge awkward questions asked by their employers (usually Kings or rich nobles).

Now deciding whether a chart is fit to be judged is actually important in all areas of Astrology - it might be argued that natal charts are obviously fit to be judged because we have the native as evidence that the nativity occurred. However a quick scan through the Astrology threads will show that this is not the case - there are instances where some have judged charts for which there is no known birth time, or have judged charts based on birth times that prove to be in error, or even birth dates that are in error. An Astrologer should always do the best they can to verify the data they have and to qualify any judgements, if some vital data is missing, indeed not to make judgements on pure assumption or supposition.

In the case of a Horary chart, it might well be argued that we know it's genuine because, as the Astrologer, we cast it for the moment we understood the question. I started off using them and as time has gone on, I've relaxed on some of them. However they are 'considerations' they do not, of themselves, prevent the Astrologer making a judgement. So I'll list them, as Lilly gives them and add my comments in terms of my own experience.

Lilly's Considerations

1. There should be agreement between the Lord of the Ascendant and the Lord of the Hour (the planetary hour lord when the chart was cast) I'm not sure that you can get the planetary hour lord from Astro.com, for Morinus, go to 'Tables' and from the drop down menu select 'planetary hours' you can then easily find the planetary hour ruler for the time of your chart. According to Lilly they should be of the same triplicity. Now Lilly's examples are ones using the ptolemaic triplicities - which Morinus gives you, if you've set your options as described in the Free AStrology Software thread

http://www.tarotforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=26

Up to know I've enlarged this consideration to include planets who have sign rulerships in the same triplicity as the sign on the Ascendant - e.g. with Gemini on the Ascendant, I'd allow a Saturn hour or a Venus hour as they rule Aquarius and Libra respectively. I'd also allow exaltation rulers - e.g. with Pisces rising, I'd allow Mars (Scorpio). Jupiter (Pisces) and Venus (exaltation Pisces) but to be honest I'm coming to the view that this consideration is really unncessary and it's best simply to ask 'does the chart adequately describe the situation?' So I won't be using it in this thread.

2. Early or Late degrees of a sign rising. That is 0-3 and 27-30. Lilly says don't venture judgement for the first unless it's a young querent or their body corporature matches the description of the rising sign, i.e. if Cancer is rising their body type is Cancer. For late degrees he says it's OK if the chart is cast for a precise time relevant to the question, e.g. I last saw my pet cat at 3:52 pm and it's not come home for it's tea, is it OK? If 3:52 produces the late degree rising, he says it's still safe to read the chart. Frawley reckons that this consideration came into use because of difficulties telling the time accurately and a change of sign produces a different significator for the querent (and therefore very likely a different answer), Accurate time pieces mean that this is no longer a problem. (unless of course you have 3 different time pieces all giving different times ) It's worth considering but it doesn't stlop me doing a reading, unless it's coupled with another consdieration I use. There's also a line that early degrees mean it's too soon to know the outcome and late degrees means there's no action that the querent can take to affect the outcome. These make some sense and I do tend to use them as qualifications.

3. When the the Moon is Void of Course. For Lilly this means that the Moon will not apply to a major aspect before it changes sign or if it does the major aspect will not be completed in the early degrees of the next sign. Lilly also allows a Void of Course Moon to be used if it's in Cancer, Taurus, Sagittarius or Pisces. The first two are its rulership and its exaltation, the latter two are the signs of Jupiter the greater benefic (which is exalted in Cancer). I use the VOC Moon as a consideration and tend not to make a judgement for those charts. The key to this is that it's the Moon that mediates between heaven and Earth and no manor aspect = no heavenly influence.

4. Moon or Ascendant in the Via Combusta. The Via Combusta is a stretch of the zodiac from 15 Libra to 15 Scorpio and literally means burnt path. I don't use these considerations at all.

5. The Seventh cusp afflicted or Lord 7 retrograde or otherwise debilitated, Saturn in the Seventh or First (unless Saturn is a significator in the question), Lord of the Ascendant combust. The argument for this is two fold. Firstly the seventh house is the House of the Astrologer doing the chart, so if it's afflicted or Saturn is in it, his or her judgement will be impaired - they will get the answer wrong or miss something important. The argument for affliction to the Ascendant is that it shows a weak querent who might not be able to take the necessary action to secure the desired outcome. I don't use either of these. My reasoning is if I refused to do a chart on the grounds I'd probably get it wrong, I'd not do any charts at all! Also if the querent is weak then this is actually necessary information for answering their question. Id' rather be told that there's little I can do to affect the outcome than the Astrologer say, I'm not prepared to make a judgement - what does that mean? She's seen nasty things happening to me and is to shocked to tell me?? A fertile imagination doesn't react kindly to being told 'no judgement' without giving good reasons.

OK those are the considerations - the Void of Coiurse Moon is the only one I tend to use as a definite deferral of judgement, and I'll say so. The others lead to a qualification of the answer or are ignored - e.g. the ones relating to Via Combusta or agreement of triplicity.
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Significators and Houses


Right we're nearly ready for the first Question - a bit earlier than I expected So just a comment on the significators and houses and we'll take our first customer!

Significators

The querent gets the first House in virtually all Horaries. So if Cancer is ascending, the querent gets the Moon as his or her significator. If it's Pisces or Sagittarius their significator is Jupiter, If it's Aquarius or Capricorn their significator is Saturn, and so on. The only eceptions to this are:

When the querent is a 'messanger' from someone else who is the real author of the question. For example if the Finance Director of a company turns up and says, 'The CEO wants to know if the company will make a profit next year'. In this case it's the CEO who gets the first house and the Finance Director gets nothing (except to the question requires you to look at Comapany Finances in which case the Finance Director is 8th House).

The other exception is where an interested pary asks a question about another person without their knowledge or permission. For example a woman asks you if her son will marry his current girlfriend. The woman is not part of the question and is not directly involved. The son gets the first and his girlfriend the Seventh. The mother will be the tenth house ruler, if (and only if) there is a need to consider his mother, for example the chart shows that the intervention of a third party is necessary and this third party is his mother. Don't try to 'turn the chart' or use derived houses for these questions - that is don't use the fifth house for the son and the eleventh for his girlfirend. Yes the fifth is the house of children but it's so much easier to use first and seventh in the normal way and apply the rules in the normal way. You risk getting confused using the fifth because then you have to keep thinking of what each house is signifying and what the relationship of one person to another really is.

That's the easy bit. The hard bit is deciding which house deals with the quesited, so that you can identify it's significator. For many horaries it's still quite easy:

Houses
Second = personal income and resources
Third = siblings, neighbours and short journeys
Fourth = Father, family as a whole, land buildings and buried treasure
Fifth = children and fun
Sixth = disease, subordinates, small pets
Seventh = partner, boy friend/girl friend, enemy, they buyer of what you are selling, or the seller of what you are buying, the other party in a law case, the thief if you've been robbed
Eight = partner's money and resources, taxes, the company's money. your opponents second in a duel - these days your opponents lawyer in a court case. It rarelly means death unless the question actually is about that.
Ninth = Travel, higher eduction, philosophy, dreams, prophesy,
Tenth = employer, job, mother, the government as a whole, the President or Prime Minister
Eleventh = friends, the government agencies, the resources of your employer or prospective employer (useful if you want to know if they can afford to pay you what you want) and your hopes and expecations
Twelfth = large animals, secret enemies, prisons, hospitals, friend's resources - e.g. a question such as 'Can my friend lend me 100?'

I find most of the questions I get are 7th House relationships, followed by questions on jobs or buying/renting houses and questions on travel or eduction. I've never had a question that was twelfth house,

The first House itself can be used for overall Health, the best place to live, things that happen in my house (as it contains me), ships and their voyages - when I'm a passenger or have an investment in their cargo..

For a more detailed list see Skyscript

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/

The side bar on the left has the houses, simply click on each number to see what the house is associated with or use

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/cont.html

for a shortened version of Deb Houlding's book.

I will expand on houses as we go through the charts, so more comments will follow as and when they are needed. If you are not sure for your own horary then please, please post in this thread for help.

Finally, I use Regiomontanus Houses, as did Lilly. There is no reason whatsoever why a different house system cannot be used, it's just that I like the system but personal preference does not mean it's superior, it isn't. You will find traditional horary readers who use Porphry, Whole Signs, Alcabitus and later ones who use Placidus. Lilly might well have adopted Placidus if the tables had been widely available in his time.

If you are using Morinus, you can change the house system using 'Options' and then 'houses' and you can swap back and foward to see the instant effect of changing the house system.

OK first question please - so that I can take you through a reading. It's better to see horary in action than to try and absorb all the method first.
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I have a question to ask. I am willing to be the first one if you like.
I'm going to post my question below because I wasn't sure if I should start a separate thread or if it would be better to take the example question then have it read in this thread for teaching purposes.

My question is: will I have have a meaningful romantic relationship in the next 6 months? By meaningful I mean something that isn't a casual fling but it doesn't have to be marriage either. A mutually interested type romantic relationship.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nytebugg View Post

My question is: will I have have a meaningful romantic relationship in the next 6 months? By meaningful I mean something that isn't a casual fling but it doesn't have to be marriage either. A mutually interested type romantic relationship.
Thank you Nytebugg. That's a good question. Could you please tell me if you have anybody particular in mind and if you are in any relationship at the moment. By that I really want to distinguish whether there is currently an embryonic relationship, which you are thinking/hoping to develop, or whether there is no one at all at the moment.
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I'm trying to be open at this point. I'm not currently seeing anyone. There is someone I am interested in but so far we've only been friends. Other than him there is no one even remotely on the horizon.
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