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Since I have a Mac and am always slightly dissatisfied with using emulators to run Morinus (although this does pretty well) or Janus, I'm always keeping my eye out for other software solutions. Has anyone else tried out astroapp.com? It's an online version of astrological software that offers a more complete feature set than what one can get with astro.com, for instance.

The free edition is good for basic things, but for most desired traditional techniques one would need the standard package. The good thing is that you an pay one month at a time, and you can set it to be non-renewable (and yet it saves your data if you revert back to the free version.) This is good for someone like me who goes on and off with her astrological studies, so I can just turn it on when I need it.

It's a little bit clunky, but not much more so than others.
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I am trying to learn horary. I installed Morinus traditional but I dont understand what second option I have to click here:

"Go to Lot of Fortune and make sure the second option is selected, that is giving a different calculation depending on whether itís a diurnal (day) or nocturnal (night) chart."

Where do I find it when I open the Lot of Fortune set up?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daphne View Post
I am trying to learn horary. I installed Morinus traditional but I dont understand what second option I have to click here:

"Go to Lot of Fortune and make sure the second option is selected, that is giving a different calculation depending on whether itís a diurnal (day) or nocturnal (night) chart."

Where do I find it when I open the Lot of Fortune set up?


Morinus Traditional has a different setup for Lots compared to the 'Full' version. I'm not quite sure of the circumstances in which your quote (above) originated but to set the lots you should select 'Options' from the top menu and then when the list appears select 'Lots' (just over half way down) and this will open the Lots dialogue box.

When it is first installed, Morinus has only one Lot entered, (the Lot of Fortune as #1 over in the right hand pane).

On the left side of the dialogue are all the settings options. Most of these are for adding further Lots, as you go. At the top of the left hand side is a selection box. This will read 'Ascendant' on the left and then the first option, already selected is AC. You do not need to change this, so leave it as it is.

The next row down gives the name of the Lot. 'Lot of Fortune' in a data entry box. You only need to change this name if you add further lots, so again, leave it as it is.

The next row gives the calculation using drop down boxes. There are three and they should be set to read AC + (MO - SU): the plus and minus sign and brackets are permanently added to the text, but you can change the three terms). Again as this is the calculation for the Lot of Fortune you don't need to change anything.

Now under that row is a check box with the word 'Diurnal' next to it. By default I think this is unchecked, following the ptolemaic method used by William Lilly (that is the Lot does not change in calculation whether it's a day or night chart). You should tick the box by clicking in it and this will reverse the calculation automatically when you have a night birth (or a night question). It becomes totally automatic, if the chart shows that the Sun has set then it will use the reverse formula AC + (SU - MO) without you having to even think about it.

Ptolemy was an oddball when it comes to Lots, this is the only Lot he used and even then he was different from everyone else. Lilly and other Astrologers in the seventeenth century only had Ptolemy to go by as a genuine Hellenistic text, so he rejected the Arab practice of reversing the calculation for night charts, even though it was actually the more authentic method.

I've actually given you a lot more information than you needed. I could have just said, make sure the box with 'Diurnal' next to it is ticked.

However you now have some idea how to enter further Lots, so here's a second one for you.

In the 'Name' box, erase the word Fortune and replace it with the word Spirit. then change the second and third drop down boxes below to read SU and MO. Leave the Diurnal box ticked. Then click on the word 'Add' on the large button further down the left hand side. It's the top one of four wide buttons one above the other. You should now find that over in the right hand pain the words 'Lot of Spirit' appear next to the number 2.

You will notice that there is a tick box just to the left of #2. This will not be ticked, so any chart you calculate will not take any notice of your new Lot of Spirit. If you tick it, then you will find that it appears in the table of Lots on the Tables menu (from the main screen) You can add further lots if you need them but obviously you will need to know what they mean. You will find some reference to them in the Hellenistic Astrology thread.

I do use them if I think it's necessary, in horary but you don't have too. Certainly Lilly and Co did not.

Hopefully I've answered your question but if I didn't please come back at me.
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Thank you so much for taking time to explain it to me! You have a gift to explain, really, I understood all and modified. I installed the traditional Morinus, to be able to follow the horary thread and it is indeed different then the full version (I installed that one too).

I tried to install Morinus at the beginning of the year, but I gave up, it sounded too complicated for me. Few days ago I began to read the Horary TextBook by John Frawley, and although it is still so enormous info to grasp at once, I managed to progress through some pages and I decided to try again.

I like Morinus. What I dont like is that it is not written on the wheel the degree of the sign where a house begins, it might help me when trying to get the future aspect. The most difficult thing for me at this moment is to determine when and and where an aspect will be perfected, maybe by direct planets, by antiscion or contra-antiscion and so on. But maybe I will get it someday by practice and lots of reading.
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You can get the house cusp degrees by clicking on 'Tables', and then 'Positions'. Morinus lists cusps 1, 2, 3, 10, 11 and 12. Cusps 7,8. 9, 4, 5 and 6 are the same degree of the opposite sign. I think that's the cost of being able to switch house systems very easily.

Finding those aspects is indeed something of a challenge at first, though the lines may help. Basically sextiles are two signs apart, either left or right, squares are three signs apart either left or right and trines are four singns apart either left or right. Be careful, that count does not include the sign you are starting with, so count one as the next sign. If that's not natural to you, then simply count one for the sign you start from and sextiles are three signs apart, squares four signs apart and trines five signs apart.

For example: starting at Cancer; sextiles are Taurus and Virgo; squares are Aries and Libra; Trines are Scorpio and Pisces.

In horary you are looking for applying aspects so the faster planet must be in fewer degrees of the sign. Moon at 15 degrees Cancer is applying to a square with Mars at 17 degrees Aries but Mars at 15 Cancer is actually in a separating aspect to Moon at 17 Aries.

That seems simple but you need to check that the planets will actually perfect so your first port of call is to look at the speeds, from the Tables menu. The Moon will always be faster than Mars but there are times when Mars can be faster than Mercury or Venus and times when it can be slower than Jupiter or Saturn. Those times tend to be when one or other is slowing for a station Retrograde or has just started from a station direct. Clues to that are if Mars, Jupiter or Saturn are around a trine from the Sun, or Mercury or Venus is near their maximum extension from the Sun. That can be checked visually and if it looks possible then you can check the speeds. The ultimate test is to check it with an ephemeris or simply try moving the chart forward several days. House cusps tend to obscure the aspects unless you are using Whole Sign Houses, as it's possible using quadrant houses to get a planet applying to a sextile in the next house, or even in extreme cases, the same house.

Antiscia are a little tricky. The key is to visualise a line from 0 Cancer to 0 Capricorn. It the planets are on the same side of this line then there's no antiscia. However there may be contrantiscia so its worth checking the Antiscia table from Tables menu.
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Yes, for me it seems more natural to count the first sign with one and the sextile is the third sign, square the 4th and trine the 5th.

The difficult thing for me is indeed to spot and calculate the applying aspect. I think it is a lot of mental arithmetic that should come as a second nature,. But for me it is snail work.
Then, there are the other planets around that can interfere with the two planets in the question, which can make aspects before or in turns. I am not even able to solve a horary chart in one day, I have to look and check every planet, to look again and so on and in the end I am still not sure I saw the right thing.

You offer short cuts in understandings, like the clues about the speed and the position of Mars Saturn and Jupiter vs Sun, very helpful, would never thought of it myself, too advanced. Probably I will grasp later one why is this (the trine thing, at the maximum extension of Venus and Mercury I get it why they slow down, they turn R, now I have to find what is that maximum).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daphne View Post
Yes, for me it seems more natural to count the first sign with one and the sextile is the third sign, square the 4th and trine the 5th.
That's right, and just ignore houses at that stage or use whole sign houses. The problem with that later suggestion is that whilst whole sign houses were the original system for horary (and indeed Astrology as a whole) if you're trying to follow Frawley or other experts, you will find they are using quadrant houses and I wouldn't suggest that you try WSH whilst trying to follow their analysies. Morinus does allow you to easily switch back and forth on house systems, far easier than any other program. So if you're happy to switch back and forth, you might mind WSH works for identifying asects and then back to Regiomontanus or Placidus for the the interpretations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daphne
The difficult thing for me is indeed to spot and calculate the applying aspect. I think it is a lot of mental arithmetic that should come as a second nature,. But for me it is snail work.
Some Astrology programs will give you a 30 degree strip, with the degree positions of each planet (though obviously not the signs). This can help but it can also be very misleading if one or other significator is about to station.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daphne
Then, there are the other planets around that can interfere with the two planets in the question, which can make aspects before or in turns. I am not even able to solve a horary chart in one day, I have to look and check every planet, to look again and so on and in the end I am still not sure I saw the right thing.
Yes I know the feeling, it's something that you will always have to check carefully, even when you get proficient. As a quick cheat here, remember that the only aspects that are allowed are the major aspects, so any 'interfering' planet will lie in one of those aspects to a significator. You only need to check certain signs. Even so that still takes some care. One thing you could look at is the table of aspects which Morinus provides (under Tables) and cross check to see if either significator is in a major aspect to another planet (or within reach of one).

Quote:
Originally Posted by daphne
You offer short cuts in understandings, like the clues about the speed and the position of Mars Saturn and Jupiter vs Sun, very helpful, would never thought of it myself, too advanced. Probably I will grasp later one why is this (the trine thing, at the maximum extension of Venus and Mercury I get it why they slow down, they turn R, now I have to find what is that maximum).
Mercury's greatest elongation is around 27 to 28 degrees. For Venus the figure is around 48 degrees. However changes of direction will not occur precisely at that figure. Mercury and Venus have the same average speed as the Sun. However (using Mercury as an example) they will sometimes appear to be moving faster and will begin to move ahead of the Sun in the zodiac. The longer Mercury is moving faster than 1 degree per day (apparent speed) the further ahead it will get. Then it's speed will appear to drop and once it's below a degree a day, the Sun will begin to catch up. Thus the station retrograde occurs after the greatest elongation has been reached (with Mercury ahead of the Sun.

With Mercury behind the Sun and Retrograde, the station Direct occurs before the planet reaches its furthest elongation. This is because after stationing Direct, Mercury moves ahead only slowly and the Sun being quite a bit faster will increase the apparent distance. Once Mercury's speed reaches about 1 degree per day it will reach its furthest distance from the Sun and thereafter as its speed increases the elongation will fall.

You don't need to bother too much with the knowledge of the mechanics and really it's only useful to know in the case where Mercury is further on in the zodiac (ahead of the Sun or Oriental).

For the Superior planets, somewhere around a trine is a good indicator that they might be about to station. In all cases the Sun will be ahead of them for the Station Retrograde and will be approaching them for the Station Direct. Obviously Morinus will tell you if the planet is Direct or Retrograde, so all you're using that for is a check to see if the planet is likely to station in the near future. Alternatively you can consult the Speed table to check on whether they are slow or fast).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
That's right, and just ignore houses at that stage or use whole sign houses. The problem with that later suggestion is that whilst whole sign houses were the original system for horary (and indeed Astrology as a whole) if you're trying to follow Frawley or other experts, you will find they are using quadrant houses and I wouldn't suggest that you try WSH whilst trying to follow their analysies. Morinus does allow you to easily switch back and forth on house systems, far easier than any other program. So if you're happy to switch back and forth, you might mind WSH works for identifying asects and then back to Regiomontanus or Placidus for the the interpretations.
Yes, Frawley does not use the whole sign houses (I was about to ask what WSH means, now I realized) and understand the rational behind, there are 2 different movements, Earth rotation (house) and Earth around Sun (signs). They cannot always perfectly juxtapose. I am curious about the rational behind WSH.

And he also advise (quite strong) to use only Regiomontanus system for horary, because "it works".
Placidus, Regiomontanus, are all some systems named after their inventors, yes?
Then why are considered one better then other?
What makes people to adhere to one or another? Just the force of habit? some rational? it is easier or makes more sense to them? (I dont know if this questions should go on on this thread, maybe I should just make another one with beginners questions, you decide).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daphne View Post
Yes, Frawley does not use the whole sign houses (I was about to ask what WSH means, now I realized) and understand the rational behind, there are 2 different movements, Earth rotation (house) and Earth around Sun (signs). They cannot always perfectly juxtapose. I am curious about the rational behind WSH.
WSH is the original system for topical houses - that is houses that deal with areas of life and things related to them. The rationale is quite straightforward; the sign rising on the Eastern horizon gives you the hour marker, or Ascendant. The whole of that sign becomes the first house, relating to you and your mind body and spirit. The rising sign, is just that, it has not yet fully risen, so it connects you to both heaven and Earth.

The advantages of WSH, especially in horary is that each house is exactly one whole sign with one clear ruler. There's not issue with intercepted houses or miniscule houses. I had one Regiomontanus chart recently in which the Sun was in the seventh house, yet it was in almost exact sextile to the seventh cusp. By Whole Sign Houses it was in the ninth house.

Quadrant systems, such as Placidus and Regiomontanus were originally designed to test planetary strength, not to deal with topics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by daphne
And he also advise (quite strong) to use only Regiomontanus system for horary, because "it works".
Placidus, Regiomontanus, are all some systems named after their inventors, yes?
Then why are considered one better then other?
What makes people to adhere to one or another? Just the force of habit? some rational? it is easier or makes more sense to them? (I dont know if this questions should go on on this thread, maybe I should just make another one with beginners questions, you decide).
Regiomontanus does work but then so does WSH, Placidus, etc. When I came into Astrology there was great debate about the best house system and a clear belief that there was one and it could be determined mathematially. That was not the first time that the debate took off. Somewhere around the turn of the first millenium there was a similar debate, couched more in terms of determiing the house system that Ptolemy described. That was clearly a quadrant system but the wording was so terse that it was not at all clear what how it was actually calculated in practice.

In fact Ptolemy's description occurs where he is discussing the length of life technique and this was the area where all Hellenistic Astrologers used a quadrant system. For topics they used whole sign houses and very likely Ptolemy did the same.

Since that first debate over a thousand years ago, Western Astrology has seen house systems as being primarily quadrant. In Jyotish (Vedic Astrology) they are primarily whole sign and that's because they imported the from the West well before the first Ptolemy debate.

Does it really matter? No I don't think it's a vital issue but I have been trying whole signs recently and there are at least some places where they seem to work well. At the moment there's a resurgence of interest in them but it does come down to which you find the most comfortable. Astrologers tend to be quite conservative. When Astrology was revived at the end of the nineteenth century the only house tables that were easily accesible were Placidus and that's why it became the norm in the twentieth century. Inertia has kept it at number one though there's always a fashion to try something different. I don't see Placidus being replaced as the most popular system but remember that's not because it's objectively the best but because it is the one that most Astrologers pick up when they learn.

Morinus allows you to change the house system easily, so you can always try them out.
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Another good free Astrology program


I have been using Zet 9 lite for various Astrological studies and it is very adaptable:

http://www.zaytsev.com/downloads.html
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