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Traditional Terms used in Horary Astrology

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Traditional Terms used in Horary Astrology


This post is designed to give a list of terms and their meanings for people who want to try their hand at Horary readings, especially in relation to the Horary DIY thread but also for any horary you try to do, whether you post it or not.

I'm going to put the terms in order of their use, rather than in alphabetical order and I'll give a brief explanation of each one. This thread will be made a sticky, so it's easy to find This first post will be on the Essential Dignities.

1. Terms Relating to Essential Dignity

Essential dignity is derived from a planet's position by sign. Five types are commonly used though of these only 2 are used in the modern form of Astrology and even then not in the same way. They are in order of importance:

Rulership (score=5)

Each planet rules two signs, except for the Sun and Moon, which have one sign each. A planet has to be in it's own sign to achieve this dignity. Sometimes this is referred to as the 'domicile, or house of the planet (note 'house' here is not the same as the houses of a chart The rulerships are:

Sun Leo Sun side signs go in Zodiacal order from Leo
Moon Cancer Moon side signs go in reverse zodiacal order starting from Cancer
Mercury Gemini (Moon side) Virgo (Sun side)
Venus Taurus (Moon side) Libra (Sun side)
Mars Aries (Moon side) Scorpio (Sun side)
Jupiter Pisces (Moon side) Sagittarius (Sun side)
Saturn Aquarius (Moon Side) Capricorn (Sun side)

A planet in its own rulership or domicile is 'at home' and can do what it likes.

Exaltation (score=4)

Exaltations are sometimes used in Modern Astrology. The basis is not entirely clear though there are some good theories. Here is the list

Sun Aries
Moon Taurus
Mercury Virgo
Venus Pisces
Mars Capricorn
Jupiter Cancer
Saturn Libra

Using the 'house' analogy a planet is exaltation is rather like an honoured guest. Nothing is too good for them and they have a lot of freedom of action.

Triplicity (score=3)

Traditional Astrologers all agree on Rulership and Exaltation but there are different systems for Triplicity. The two most common ones are Egyptian and Ptolemaic. Despite it's title 'Egyptian Terms' are those developed by Hellenistic Astrologers in Alexandria (founded by Greeks) and is not connected to ancient Egypt, Ptolemaic Terms are called after the Hellenistic Astrologer/Astronomer Claudius Ptolemy , who actually did live in Egypt, most probably in Alexandria. He was a Roman Citizen but wrote in Greek (He too was Hellenisitic) He was a revisionist and wanted to base Astrology solely on reason, rather than symbolism.

Both sets of triplicities were used right the way throug the traditional period. Lilly uses the Ptolemaic Triplicities but I would think the majority of Traditional Astrologers probably used the Egyptian version

In both cases the Triplicities referred too are the signs of the same element - Fire, Earth, Air and Water. Each system uses a ruler by day and a ruler by night, reflecting the Greek origins of both (the Greeks basing much of their Astrology on the differences between day and night). In the case of the Egyptian triplicities, three planets are involved. A day ruler, a night ruler and a 'participating ruler. Ptolemy dropped the participating ruler and kep to day and night. There are some minor differences between the day and night rulers for each system. In Hellenisitic Astrology the Triplicity ruler was a lot more important than in Medieval and later Astrology.

Terms (score=2)

Again there are two main versions, Egyptian and Ptolemaic. Lilly used the Ptolemaic version but it's probably that over the whole classical period, more Astrologers used the Egyptian version. Early Astrologers used the term 'Bounds' for what Later became known as 'Terms', so you should see these as limited areas of a sign where a planet has rulership. Each sign has 5 Terms, but of not equal length. Thus despite the fact that 30 divided by 5 = 6 some terms can be longer and others shorter, within the same sign. Long here is 7 degrees short is 4 degrees. Morin in the Seventeenth Century tried to do a Ptolemy and rationalise the dignities, He proposed dropping the Terms altogether - something which has happened in Modern Astrology

Face or Decan (score=1

These are still used by some Modern Astrologers and divide each sign into three sets of 10 degrees (hence the name Decan). They are therefore intrinsically easier to understand.

You will also find different versions of the Faces or Decans, but not to any extent in the tradition. All traditional Astrologers that I've read, use the same system. The first Decan of Aries goes to Mars and then decans are allocated by planetary order right the way through the rest of the zodiac, repeating the sequence as necessary. So The Sun gets the second Decan of Aries, Venus gets the third one, Mercury gets the first Decan of Taurus, Moon the second and we then start again from Saturn which gets the third. Jupiter will get the first Decan of Gemini, and so on

The Face or Decan is the lowest form of essential dignity. Lilly uses the analogy of being a person who has at least got a roof over his head, rather than being out on the street whith no where to live.

Essential Debilities

Just as planets can gain strength by being in a sign they can also lose strength by being in a sign. There are three essential debilities

Detriment (score=-5)

Detriment is where a planet is as far from 'home' as it can get - that is being in a sign opposite to it's rulership or domicile. Note that there are clear pairs here For example, Mercury is in detriment in the signs ruled by Jupiter and vice versa, The same goes for Mars and Venus and finally The Moon is in detriment in Capricorn ruled by Saturn, and The Sun in Aquarius, also ruled by Saturn. Saturn in turn is in detriment in the signs of the Sun and Moon

Fall (score=-4)

This is when a planet is in the sign opposite it's Exaltation.

Sun/Leo; Moon/Scorpio; Mercury/Pisces; Venus/Virgo; Mars/Cancer; Jupiter/Capricorn and Saturn/Aries

Peregrine (score=-5)

Finally we have the situation where a planet has no essential dignitiy at all at it's current location. This is called 'Peregrine' and can be interpreted as having no real direction or power to act. A planet that is Peregrine can achieve but only if it is supported by a much stronger planet - usually a favourable aspect to the sign ruler will indicate this.


In the next post I'll give a list of the Accidental dignities Some of these are in modern use but most are ones not used at all and therefore ones you will not be familiar with
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Accidental Dignities


Accidental Dignities are derived from 4 attributes of a planet in a particular chart Ė that is they are chart dependant not sign dependent. The four attributes are determined by:

House position
Phase relation to the Sun
Aspects from benefics and malefics
Aspects from fixed Stars.

In practice a planet may have one or more of these plus its essential dignity. Care should be taken to balance these. In general accidental dignities show whether a planet is well placed to act (or more properly the person it signifies), whereas essential dignity indicates itís inherent strength to act. For example Superman has very high essential dignity but put him next to some Kryptonite and he suddenly gathers an awful lot of accidental debility and his ability to act is fundamentally reduced.

House Position

This depends on the nature of the house and its aspect to the Ascendant, if any. Most Astrology students are familiar with the idea that angular houses are best, followed by succedent houses and with cadent houses in third place. The traditional ranking is similar but with some exceptions:

So a planet it the:

Ascendant or MC scores +5
Seventh, Fourth or Eleventh scores +4
Second and fifth scores +3
Ninth scores +2
Third scores +1
Sixth or eighth scores -4
Twelfth scores -5

In general this fits the modern ranking but note that the Eleventh gets equal ranking with the DSC and IC Ė the reason being that it is not only a succedent house but sextiles the Ascendant. Similarly the ninth and third are both cadent but the ninth trines the Ascendant whereas the third only sextiles it. The eighth is actually a succedent house but it has no major aspect to the Ascendant and has unfortunate connections with death and misery. Both the sixth and twelfth are cadent and make no aspect to the Ascendant, the twelfth is the joy of Saturn, the sixth is the Joy of Mars. In Horary the better the placement by house is for the querentís (or other personís) significators, the more able to act they are:

Phase relationships with the Sun

Starting from the exact conjunction with the Sun a planet can have the following dignities or debilities:

Cazimi or in the Heart of The Sun (score= +5)

In Medieval times this appears to have meant a partile conjunction with the Sun (both in the same degree of the same sign). However by Lillyís time it was taken as the planet being no more than 17 minutes of the Sunís exact position (either way). You will rarely find it in horary charts (or any charts) but it is a position of great power. Again it emphasises an ability to act.

Combust (score= -5)

This is the planetís conjunction with the Sun (except when it is Cazimi) and the planet has to be within 8.5 degrees of the Sunís position, either side. A planet in Combustion but moving out of it is in a better position than one moving further into combustion, whilst that does not affect the score it should temper your reading of combust planets.

Combustion means that the planet cannot be seen for the Sunís light. In turn it means that it does not reflect light and so can form no meaningful aspects with other planets. In a Horary, treat this as a condition which means the querent or questited (whicheverís significators is combust) is likely not to be seen or taken notice of. So if your searching for a lost earring and its significators is combust, itís either out of sight or is obscured by something else.

Under the Sunís Beams (scores -4)

This is similar to combustion but not as strong. The range here is 17 degrees either side of the Sun and marks the area where a planet is either totally obscured or mostly obscured. Those of you who have an interest in the origin of Calendars may be familiar with the search for the first crescent of the New Moon which occurs on the third day after the old Moon disappeared. During this time the Moon is either under the beams or combust. (apart from the instant of the astronomical conjunction when itís Cazimi).

Again in Horary it signifies something that is not seen or noticed or has difficulty being noticed.


Oriental or Occidental

These two are totally absent from modern Astrology. Neither is a major influence but they can add to the ability to act or detract from it.

Lilly gives two simple definitions.

ĎOriental is to rise before the Suní i.e. the planet is seen in the morning sky before sunrise
ĎOccidental is to set after the Suní, i.e. the planet is seen in the evening sky after sunset

These two definitions work perfectly for Venus and Mercury but with the other planets Lilly has to add further words of definition. For the Moon and the superior planets (Mars, Jupiter and Saturn) orientality depends on whether the planet is between the conjunction and the opposition with the Sun or between the opposition and the conjunction.

As the Sun is faster than the three superior planets and the Moon is faster than the Sun, itís no surprise to learn that the definition is different for the superiors and the Moon. The Moon is oriental from her opposition to her conjunction, i.e. when she is waning or decreasing in light. She is occidental between the conjunction and the opposition (Full Moon) when she is waxing or increasing in light.

For the three superiors the situation is the opposite. They are oriental from the conjunction to the opposition and occidental from the opposition to the conjunction (see attached sheet)

Mercury, Venus and the Moon gain +2 points when they are occidental and lose -2 points when they are oriental. For the superiors, they gain +2 when oriental (the Sun and hence combustion are leaving them) and lose two points when the Sun is moving towards them (they are occidental)

The use of this in horary, or indeed any form of Astrology is of relatively minor importance, but occasionally the gain of strength or loss of strength may tip you to the right judgement when other dignities are evenly balanced.

Retrograde (score=-5)

Modern usage of Retrograde tends to be spasmodic but often suggests quirky behaviour, going against the planetís nature or getting things wrong. In horary Retrograde can mean many things, for example it might indicate that a lost item is coming back to you, if itís significators is retrograde. It might mean speedy or sudden resolution if a retrograde significators is in mutual application with a direct significator. It can mean a loss of direction or acting against your own best interests, but most often it means a difficulty in action. Again you have to consider ALL the dignities Ė Superman might well be able to overcome the Kryptonite if he happens to have a lead lined box handy, a weak man might not be able to lift 20kg an Olympic weightlifter can lift it with one hand tied behind his back. Accidental debilities are not the be all and end all of a horary.

Speed (score +2 if Swift, -2 if slow)

Most software, including Morinus, will give you the daily speed of a planet. If you havenít got an Astrology program, you can work out the planetary speed on the day of your chart from an online ephemeris. However few programs will tell you whether the speed is swift or slow. The only one Iím aware of is Janus. Iíve attached a sheet indicating what is fast or slow for each planet, taken from John Frawley. The sheet also summarises the conditions for being oriental or occidental. You will still need to check the speed on the day of the chart but the sheet helps you make a judgement. The sheet shows Lillyís estimates of average speed - which is quite accurate, however the average is worked out from both direct and retrograde motion, which doesnít help an awful lot. In Christian Astrology he does give a better indication of ranges of speed but the Frawley table is more concise.

Fast speed can indicate speedy resolution of the question (along with other indicators) and of course slow speed may indicate some delays. The speed of the Moon is general to all Horaries, so a swift Moon is generally a good sign.

Aspects from benefics and malefics

A benefic planet is one that will help the resolution of the matter (or enhance some aspect of the natal character) Aspects here are trines and sextiles and the natural benefics are Jupiter and Venus. A partile trine scores +4 a partile sextile scores +3. You might reduce the score for wider aspects by knocking of 1 point for each degree.

A malefic is any planet that will hinder the resolution of the matter, the natural malefics are Saturn and Mars (but not if they are a significators). Score -4 for a partile opposition and -3 for a partile square to a malefic. Also note that squares or oppositions from Lords 6, 8 and 12 can be treated as malefic hindrances, even if Lord 12 is Jupiter.

Aspects from fixed Stars

Traditionally fixed stars also had benefic and malefic natures. Lilly used around 50 of these however he only gives scores for Regulus (Cor Leonis) and Spica, as benefics (+6 and +5 respectively) and only used conjunctions.

For malefic he scores only Algol as -5 and again itís a conjunction only.

Morinus has a list of many fixed starts which you can use if you wish.

Essential and Accidental dignities are the things that you will use most but in further posts Iíll mention some of the key tests for success including antiscia, and a variety of other tests such as translation of light.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Planet speed and orientality.pdf (140.4 KB, 73 views)
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Moon Void of Course (VOC)


Most users of lunar cycles are familiar with the term Moon Void of Course, but there are several definitions of this. I use a definition which William Lilly used and is a little more accurately stated by the medieval 'Arab' Astrologer, Sahl Ibn Bishr (he was actually Jewish)

The definition is that the Moon will be void of course if it does not apply to a major aspect before it leaves it's current sign. Notice that this definition only requires the Moon to apply to a major aspect to be not VOC. Many Astrology programs will calculate whether the Moon is VOC or not, but many either don't reveal how the calculation is done or don't allow the user to vary it (or both). I therefore do my own visual check of the chart even if the program claims the Moon is VOC

Describing the check takes a lot longer to describe than actually do. But here goes.

I have a two stage check (though I tend to merge these in practice)

Check 1

Look at the sign the Moon is in and it's degree. If there is a planet between the Moon and the end of the sign then it's not VOC.

If there is no such planet, check the aspects - there are four that you need to look at:

Sextile, Square, Trine and Opposition. In reality that means exclude the two signs either side of the Moon's sign and the two signs either side of the Moon's opposition sign. For the remaining 7 signs you've already checked the sign of the Moon) if there is any planet in a greater degree than the Moon in one of those signs then the Moon is not VOC.

Example

Moon is exactly 20 degrees Aries. If there is any planet in Aries and beyond 20 degrees the Moon is not VOC. If there is no such planet check for planets in:

Gemini and Aquarius (Sextile), Cancer and Capricorn (Square) Leo and Sagittarius (Trine) and Libra (Opposition). Any planet in more than 20 degrees of these signs means that the Moon is not VOC

check 2 - only use if the Moon is beyond 18 degrees of its sign

You also only use this check if check 1 has found no planet that the Moon is applying to I will use the example above with the Moon at 20 degrees Aries. Assume that check 1 has produced no planet in the last 10 degrees of a relevant sign.

The Moon could be applying to any planet in the first two degrees of a sign. The signs are now Taurus - the Moon would be applying to a conjunction.

Assuming no planet in the first two degrees of Taurus, then check the first two degrees of:

Cancer and Pisces (Sextile), Leo and Aquarius (Square) Virgo and Capricorn (Trine) and Scorpio (opposition)

If there is still no planet then the Moon is VOC.

In practice I look at the Moon's degree and then look for planets in a greater degree, checking the aspect if I find one, for check 1 and if I haven't found one I check the early degrees of signs, assuming that the Moon's orb crosses a sign boundary.

It actually takes less than a minute as there are only six planets to check.
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Reception and Mutual Reception


Reception

This is where a planet is aspected by it's sign ruler. For example Venus in Cancer, sextiled by the Moon in Virgo. The Moon is said to receive Venus into Cancer and reception adds to a planet's strength, so Venus gains from the reception. This is not scored by Lilly or other writers but all agree that it is a positive sign, especially if Venus is a significator in the horary.. If Venus is peregrine then she has a supporter in the Moon and that her peregrine nature is diminished.

Reception by a malefic, will reduce it's effect for harm - thus Venus in Aries squared by Mars in Aquarius will not be as damaged as the same aspect with Venus in say Leo being squared by Mars.

Strictly speaking reception can be into any dignity. So Mars squaring Venus in Capricorn would create a reception into it's exaltation and the same would be true of Triplicity, Terms and Face. However I would only bother with reception into a sign or exaltation.

Mutual Reception

Reception requires an aspect between sign ruler and planet in sign and therefore this also strictly applies to a mutual reception. The mutual reception differs only that Planet A is in a dignity of Planet B and Planet B is in a dignity of Planet A Modern mutual reception only relates to planets in each others sign and doesn't seem to bother with an aspect. For example Venus in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Taurus.

In the tradition mutual receptions can involve any dignity but really Ruler, Exaltation or Triplicity are all that are likely to be important. Lilly does seem to believe that a mutual reception by sign is enough to secure a positive outcome, even without an aspect. however it is clear that he would prefer an aspect.

Mutual reception (especially with an aspect) stops a planet being peregrine. Programs such as solar fire will score a mutual reception as though the planet was in that dignity of it's own. Thus with the mutual reception above both Venus and Jupiter are given +5 for rulership. There's an argument that if the planets would otherwise have been peregrine a mutual reception cannot suddenly make them strong. I'm not so sure of this. Being peregrine is akin to being a traveller or foreigner, someone who, in that old legal phrase, has no fixed abode and doesn't know the local rules. I see a mutual reception as two such people who agree a house swap so that they can have their foreign trip but with a residence thrown in even if only a temporary one and has the other party a phone call away if help is needed. It might not be the same as your own home but it's a lot better than being in a 2 star hotel.

So treat a mutual reception as being advantageous to a significator. If the two significators in a romance question are in mutual reception, then they both attracted to each other and the romance will develop positively.
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Some further terms:


Translation of light A situation where two significators are not in an applying aspect but a third planet (a faster one) aspects each of the two significators consecutively. For example Significator A is Mars to 15 degrees Cancer and significator B is Jupiter in 10 degrees Virgo. Let's say that Mars signifies a lost ring and Jupiter signifies the querent who has lost it. This is a separating sextile and usually we would conclude that the the ring just isn't going to be found. However if the Moon at 8 degrees Taurus first trines Jupiter and then sextiles Mars in consecutive aspects then we would conclude that a third party either intentionally or unintentionally brings either the querent to the ring or the ring to the querent.

Collection of Light This is a variation on the above but this time a heavier (slower) planet signifes the third party. Suppose that Saturn lies at 16 degrees Cancer. Mars aspects Saturn and if the next planet to aspect Saturn is Jupiter, when it reaches 16 degrees Virgo (and before Saturn leaves Virgo) then the ring will again come back to the querent through the agency of a third party.

For both the above the third planet must be consecutively aspected by the two significators.

Prohibition occurs when another planet either aspects one of the significators before the other significator can (and makes no aspect to that other significator) or aspects a planet potentially involved in translation or collection of light before it has been involved in the two consecutive aspects by the significators.

An example of the latter would be if Mars completes its aspect to Saturn but before Jupiter can aspect Saturn, Saturn is aspected by the Moon moving from 10 degrees Capricorn to 16 degrees Capricorn and thus prohibiting the aspect from Jupiter being the next one after the Mars aspect.

An example of the former would be if Mars was at 10 degrees Cancer and Jupiter at 15 degrees Virgo but Mercury at 10 degrees Capricorn aspects Jupiter before Mars can get to it, as Mercury is a faster planet than either of the two significators.

It's important to check the speeds of planets here, when stationing Mercury or Venus can be slower than Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. So what might seem to be a coming prohibition might actually not be.

Refranation is from the verb to refrain, and is when the applying planet slows and turns retrograde before the aspect can be completed. Again using the above example with Mars at 10 degrees Cancer and Jupiter at 15 degrees. No other planet is going to aspect Jupiter when we check the chart and we are tempted to say that the ring will be found. However a check on an ephemeris shows that Mars will station retrograde at 14 degrees Cancer - the two signifcators do not complete the aspect and we conclude that the ring will not be found. It's reasonably easy to spot the possibility. If Mars is coming to its first trine to the Sun (Sun is coming up to four signs ahead) then check for Mars' station retrograde.

Frustration - No this is not trying to remember all these terms It's a special case of prohibition. For example, Mars at 10 degrees Taurus, Jupiter at 15 degrees Virgo and Saturn at 15 degrees 20 Virgo - before Mars can get to Jupiter, Jupiter completes its conjunction with Saturn.

Before you tear your hair out trying to remember these terms, be aware that they are all concerned with the significators either completing an appying aspect or being aided by a third planet which consecutively aspects each of them. Any other planet that aspects one, but not the other of the significators will stop the matter working out as desired. You don't need to remember the terms, just check to see if the planets will aspect or if not, whether a third planet will aspect each in turn as its consecutive aspects.
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Antiscia


This is a connection of two planets that was widely used in traditional Astrology but seems to have no place at all in modern Astrology. The term comes from the Greek words for opposite and shadows 'anti' and 'scia'. It is a system that references the Solstice line from 0 Cancer to 0 Capricorn.

Antiscia is actually the plural, (the singular is antiscion) and can be measured either in terms of signs or in terms of degrees.

In sign terms the antiscia are:

Cancer and Gemini
Leo and Taurus
Virgo and Aries
Libra and Pisces
Scorpio and Aquarius
Sagittarius and Capricorn

If you measure by degrees, the 29 Gemini is the antiscion of 1 degree Cancer
20 degrees Gemini is the antisicon of 10 degrees Cancer 10 degrees Gemini is the antiscion of 20 Cancer and 0 Taurus is the antisicion of 0 Leo.

The problem for calculation is that for one of the signs you are counting upwards from 0 and for the other downwards from 30. This might seem odd but this is an extremely old astrological concept dating back to when the solstice was at 15 degrees Cancer (and the equinox at 15 degrees Leo).

A planet casts its 'shadow' across the solstice line and is 'mirrored' by the degree of it's antiscion. If another planet is at that degree or in orb then the two planets are connected. Some authors, including Lilly also say that a planet that aspects the antiscion of a planet, also connects to it. I tend to only use direct contact by antisicia.

One reason why these two degrees have a commonality is that when the Sun is in them, then the hours of daylight are equal (between the two signs and degrees) and the hours of night are equal.

Thus the length of daylight at 0 Taurus and 0 Leo are exactly the same. They even rise in the same place on the horizon. There is a special connection between them.

Treat such connections in the same way that you would treat a conjunction.

By that reasoning the degree opposite an antiscion degree has the equivalence of an opposition and is known as a contrantiscion Such a connection threatens that the matter will not come to pass.

One last point on these, as a general point on Traditional 'aspects'. Because Gemini and Taurus are in an antiscia relationship, a planet in one of these signs can connect to a planet in the other, even though the normal aspect would be inconjunct.

The same holds for Aries and Virgo, even though these signs are inconjunct (or in modern terms, in a quincunx) there is the possibility of a strong positive connection through antiscia. You should always check the antiscia of your significators if there's no obvious applying aspect or translation of light. Even if there is a major aspect by square, such as Leo and Taurus, the antiscion will soften it, if the planets are close to their antiscion degree.
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hi wizzy could you do something for me?

Pull up a Horary chart that involves yourself and look at the Ascending degree.

Go to this website http://www.auxmaillesgodefroy.com/carelli_degrees

You might have to round the number up by or down. Check to see if what it says for the Ascending degree matches what it says on that site.
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Been robbed?


I am missing a large bit of cash, that I know I didnt put anywhere but where it belongs...despite this I have torn up every part of my house, searching for two days...I have become suspicious of a "friend" temporarily living nearby, doing some work on my house...for various reasons...his dire need for money is a constant issue, and his behavior has been strange. I did a chart specifically asking if he had taken the money...Im not sure how to post the chart here...since I am new and this is my first time posting! I have been reading everything I can about horary and been practicing on important issues, but this one is so BIG! I need help!

I cast the chart at 11:17 am (EST) Feb 17, 2012

The ascendant, My significator, is 25 degree taurus...ruled venus in the 11th in aries...being squared by pluto
The 7th house ruler, His significator, is scorpio...ruled by mars (unaspected) in the 5th retrograde in virgo and pluto in capricorn in the 8th, with an applying conjunction from the moon within two degrees
Pluto squares venus by 3 degrees
The second house cusp is gemini, ruling the money, ruled by mercury in the 10th in pisces, with a exact sextile to the moon and 2 degrees pluto in the 8th...

I am confused if pluto(the guy i am suspecting) sextiling mercury(the money) means he did or didnt take it...I can see the square to pluto might point to that...

thoughts?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chan View Post
I cast the chart at 11:17 am (EST) Feb 17, 2012

The ascendant, My significator, is 25 degree taurus...ruled venus in the 11th in aries...being squared by pluto
The 7th house ruler, His significator, is scorpio...ruled by mars (unaspected) in the 5th retrograde in virgo and pluto in capricorn in the 8th, with an applying conjunction from the moon within two degrees
Pluto squares venus by 3 degrees
The second house cusp is gemini, ruling the money, ruled by mercury in the 10th in pisces, with a exact sextile to the moon and 2 degrees pluto in the 8th...

I am confused if pluto(the guy i am suspecting) sextiling mercury(the money) means he did or didnt take it...I can see the square to pluto might point to that...

thoughts?
I'm late for more than two years LOL but Uranus, Neptune, Pluto (and other possible planets, asteroids etc.) has notning to do with traditional (which includes horary) astrology. I.e - when someone reads horary chart, or any other chart in traditional terms, there are only Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn and, when it's needed, arabic parts and nothing else. Just for the record

But it's not why I'm here; I didn't manage to find proper thread for my question, so sorry in advance for off topic (if it is). If it's off, please, move this post on proprer thread.

I see that most querents put time and place when they "ask a question". But I'm in traditional astrology (again, including horary) for some 3-4 years, I've read many texts about it, from helenistic, medieval (including arabic) to modern-day astrologers (eg Frawley, D. Houlding etc) and every of them claims that horary chart should be made and read for the time&place when astrologer heard/read it. Eg, my friend send me text or mail on Sunday evening, but I read it in Monday morning - I'll open the chart for the time when I saw message; or I'm in one city and someone text me from the city 500 miles away - I'll make the cart for time and place where I was when I read text.

Does anyone of horary readers in this forum doing horary readings in that way? I find that way is pretty more accurate then reading charts made for time and place when querent made his chart.

One more annex : I know it seems hard on forums, 'cause on almost all forums are so many querents and only a few readers. Another problem is that many people read question, but don't want to (or don't know how to) answer. But here is (potential) solution: when person who's willing to give an answer read question, (s)he can put time and place when (s)he read it, make and put chart (if someone else wants to add his opinion, or just for learning and further practice) and give reading. Or, if reader at the moment does not have time to write whole answer, just put time and place (I saw that on some forums) and someone else can use that data and provide reading.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor serpentis View Post
..... I didn't manage to find proper thread for my question, so sorry in advance for off topic (if it is). If it's off, please, move this post on proprer thread.
You can always start a new thread

But I think it fits in here so I'll just reply to your main question below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor_serpentis
I see that most querents put time and place when they "ask a question". But I'm in traditional astrology (again, including horary) for some 3-4 years, I've read many texts about it, from helenistic, medieval (including arabic) to modern-day astrologers (eg Frawley, D. Houlding etc) and every of them claims that horary chart should be made and read for the time&place when astrologer heard/read it. Eg, my friend send me text or mail on Sunday evening, but I read it in Monday morning - I'll open the chart for the time when I saw message; or I'm in one city and someone text me from the city 500 miles away - I'll make the cart for time and place where I was when I read text.

Does anyone of horary readers in this forum doing horary readings in that way? I find that way is pretty more accurate then reading charts made for time and place when querent made his chart.
Horary, like most other branches of Astrology is dependent on casting a chart for an event. There are two theoretically possible ways;

The time and place that the question was asked;

The time and place that the Astrologer understood the question.

The former seems to have been mistakenly introduced by Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson (according to Lee Lehman) and there is no evidence in the time since Lilly of the question being set for any other location. The event in this event chart is the Astrologer receiving and understanding the question.

If the Astrologer doesn't fully understand the question or has concerns about it she/he might feel a need to ask for some amplification. Indeed the process of negotiation might last for days or weeks (if carried out by snail mail) or several minutes, hours or days if carried out by telephony or the internet. An Astrologer cannot answer a question that they do not understand. So the 'event' is the Astrologer's understanding and the chart is set for the time and place that occurs.

This is not something that started with Lilly. Sahl Ibn Bishr, who wrote one of the very first horary texts in the first half of the ninth century (over 700 years before Lilly) make it clear in Book III of his text that the Astrologer doesn't answer a question till he understands it. He writes of the querent either being present to ask his question or 'sending' the question to the Astrologer, who must satisfy himself about the 'intentions' of the querent. That can only mean casting the chart for the time the Astrologer understands those 'intentions'.

I find that most times a date, place and time are attached to the question, they relate to the querents natal details and are thus mostly irrelevant to the question (though if you are searching for 'intentions' of the querent, a look at his/her natal chart might help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor-serpentis
One more annex : I know it seems hard on forums, 'cause on almost all forums are so many querents and only a few readers. Another problem is that many people read question, but don't want to (or don't know how to) answer. But here is (potential) solution: when person who's willing to give an answer read question, (s)he can put time and place when (s)he read it, make and put chart (if someone else wants to add his opinion, or just for learning and further practice) and give reading. Or, if reader at the moment does not have time to write whole answer, just put time and place (I saw that on some forums) and someone else can use that data and provide reading.
I always post a chart for the reading, so others are free to add their points if they want to
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