who owns the copy right to thoth tarot

midniteeye

with so many different versions of thoth tarot in print by various publishers, all calling themselves the thoth tarot, i cannot help but wonder, is the deck public domain much like rider waite smith? if not, who owns the copyright, and how broad does the copyright cover? thanks in advance to anyone who might enlighten me.
 

fixedair

with so many different versions of thoth tarot in print by various publishers, all calling themselves the thoth tarot, i cannot help but wonder, is the deck public domain much like rider waite smith? if not, who owns the copyright, and how broad does the copyright cover? thanks in advance to anyone who might enlighten me.

My understanding is that early versions of the Thoth were public domain, but since 1996 has been copyrighted by the O.T.O. (the one with the card in the deck) and licensed to AGMuller. The original paintings are owned by the Warburg Institute. I do not know how broad the copyright is, i.e. if it is on the images or on the photos of the images.
 

elektrius

thanks for this, I always wondered the same thing! would love to see the paintings in person...
 

Yelell

On this page from a couple of years ago, O.T.O. said they were filing suit against US games over copyright licensing and royalites -- it lists their copyright running into the 2030's.
http://oto.org/news0413.html
I was actually there looking for more on the restoration of the paintings. The thoth is not my deck, but I'd also love to see those paintings in person.
 

Teheuti

Copyright is held by the O.T.O. You have to obtain permission from them to use one or more of the cards as an illustration in print or film.
 

JasonLion

My understanding is that for a while Crowley was fairly casual about giving permission for various publishers to print his deck. Thus the many different publishers who each have their own version.
 

kwaw

Crowley granted copyright to all his works to the OTO. The problem after his death was that the OTO was split into different factions, and in the confusion of claim and counter-claim various individuals and publishers treated his work 'as if' it were public domain, or with the opinion that they were 'the OTO' and had the right to do so. An 'official' OTO was settled in court, which then was able to sue for infractions against copyright - so since that has been settled copyright permissions have to be contracted with the OTO. (Also I think US Games might have something to say about the RWS being 'pretty much public domain'.)
 

Zephyros

I wonder if all the copyright claims don't go contrary to Crowley's own wishes. He definitely saw the deck as a vehicle for the promulgation of Thelema, not as a money-making scheme. His successors may be doing him a disservice in walling it up behind legal conventions.
 

gregory

The fact remains that using the images is likely to get you into a heap of trouble.
 

Zephyros

The fact remains that using the images is likely to get you into a heap of trouble.

It depends. Today's copyright laws mainly favor those who have the money to protect them. If someone wealthy enough were to challenge USG over the RWS they would almost certainly win, but it would take huge resources nobody has or is willing to invest. It is doubtful the investment would pay off quickly.

The OTO isn't that wealthy, and the foil Thoth discussed in the other thread is possibly an example of how limited its reach is. Not that I'm condoning stealing the images, just saying that a heap of trouble is a relative term. ;)