OOTK initial step - four piles - let's try it

thorhammer

Hey, rif, and thanks for your thoughts. I think you've really nailed the crux of it with the "overanalysing" thing; also the verbal duelling without end or resolution (2S)
rif said:
5W in earth suggests that these arguments are becoming a habit
This little snippet really rocked my world when I read it! It also really brought home the importance of this card, which I all but ignored in the original reading. It's a powerful card in a powerful position, and showed that conflict is necessary to resolve differences, but has to be anchored to something. Your implication that arguments are being solidified as part of our normal habit is important, too; it's both a good and a bad thing, sadly.
The advice I'd like to draw your attention to, based on these cards, is to step back next time you're going to blow up about something, and ask if it's really so important.
I just wanted to, in turn, make the point that this has since been acknowledged by him as a problem. It's him, not me, doing this, and he knows that he's got to be less controlling and more willing to accept two different currents of input, rather than expecting me to simply comply with all his criteria.

Thanks again, rif, for going through this :) I'll remember that 5W/Earth thing, that's really awesome.

Who's next?

\m/ Kat
 

psyphy

Heya,

back "home" again, yeeehaw :D
thorhammer said:
I'll remember that 5W/Earth thing, that's really awesome.
Me too, for sure, thanks rif !
thorhammer said:
Who´s next?
Yeah, who´s next ?
 

rif

Somebody wants to know what's currently going on in her relationship, and drew the following four cards:

King of Pentacles - Eight Swords - 2 Wands - Queen of Cups
Earth in Earth .........Air in Air......Fire in Water......Water in Fire
Very Strong...........Very Strong........Weak............Weak

I see the QoC as the querent, and the KoP as her guy.

The Queen of Cups is weakened, and I would say this brings out the negative aspects of the queen: the dreamy, emotionally needy side. She is a woman who is feeling vulnerable and searching for emotional balance. (If I ignored positional meanings, the QC would still be weakened by the 2W, so I would have a similar meaning in that case.)

The 2W is also weak, so the spark or impulse is currently missing in the relationship. Alternately, the partnership is lacking. Either way, the couple is feeling "meh."

The 8S is strengthened. It's meanings have to do with feeling bound or helpless, or difficulties in communication. Trapped. Someone's thoughts are going round and round, and consuming the person. I would tend to think that's the querent, as my mind is slanting this reading towards her; but since she asked about the relationship itself, it could be both of them.

And finally, the good old King of Pentacles. Earth in earth really strengthens this card, and that isn't necessarily a good thing. The KoP is the kind of guy I'd tend to think of as well off, a good provider, fatherly, maybe successful independently of money. However, in this position, he is getting mired down and feeling in a rut. He may feel stuck in life generally, not just this relationship; I always read earth in earth as inertia.

Summarizing, I see an emotionally needy, vulnerable woman who's getting nowhere with a man in a rut. The spark between them is missing and as a result one or both of them feels trapped. All the elements are present in the cards drawn for this reading, so everything you need is there, so to speak; but improving things will require some effort. Keep in mind your thought patterns, and remember that you can choose to act differently. Breaking out of a rut will perhaps rekindle some feelings of partnership that might be missing right now.

Comments from anyone else?
 

psyphy

Heya,

yessss - a new spread :) !
Boy, I´m in a rush, DSL down, PDA down [Magus rx] - everything else up :D, will be back tomorrow or ... and replace these lines with my 2ct on your spread rif.
PS: How about a parallel thread to discuss all sorts of ED related ideas, probs, ... ?
 

thorhammer

psyphy said:
PS: How about a parallel thread to discuss all sorts of ED related ideas, probs, ... ?
:laugh: ED threads are always unpopular - rather than starting a new one, perhaps one of the ones in this search (which will expire one day, so try again with the search function) will help.

\m/ Kat
 

thorhammer

rif said:
Somebody wants to know what's currently going on in her relationship, and drew the following four cards:

King of Pentacles - Eight Swords - 2 Wands - Queen of Cups
Earth in Earth .........Air in Air......Fire in Water......Water in Fire
Very Strong...........Very Strong........Weak............Weak
<snip>
Summarizing, I see an emotionally needy, vulnerable woman who's getting nowhere with a man in a rut. The spark between them is missing and as a result one or both of them feels trapped. All the elements are present in the cards drawn for this reading, so everything you need is there, so to speak; but improving things will require some effort. Keep in mind your thought patterns, and remember that you can choose to act differently. Breaking out of a rut will perhaps rekindle some feelings of partnership that might be missing right now.

Comments from anyone else?
Nice read, I like the story that you've put together. It's all a bit depressing, isn't it?

I still don't know how you decide on what court card represents what person in the reading, or if it's a sort of flowing thing; you know how I feel about Court=Person :D But in this case I would agree, I think it's a valuable way of seeing it.

The Water and Fire in opposition say "passive-aggressive" to me; it says that the woman's way of dealing with problems is counter-productive and makes things worse quickly. Meanwhile, the weakened Queen and super-strong King suggest some kind of tyranny or even abuse, and I see the weakened 2 of Wands as supporting that.

There is habitual opposition with passive-aggressive tendencies (2 Wands in Water) and fearful, self-perpetuating thoughts between the two people. I'd say that they need to stop blaming each other for what's going wrong and take some responsibility for improving the situation - it does indeed look very bad.

\m/ Kat
 

psyphy

Heya,

pretty interesting cards and a great job rif.
I basically agree with 99% of your reading, so the only thing I´d have to offer are some different, optional points of view here.
What I noted first when I saw your cards is the extreme imbalance in almost every aspect of that spread [relationship].
So let´s presume that the KoP and the QoC do represent the couple, both of them by passive elements. Now each one can be seen or imagined in opposite corners of the YHVH camp. She in a pretty unfamilar place, he very stuck - cornered in, so to speak.
Actually we don´t "know" much more about them than what their cards suggest so let´s imagine them as 2 [robots] out of 16 possible standard models. No Myers-Briggs here, just good old humours, so Earth [Pents] relates to phlegmatic types, Water[Cups] to melancholic, both more passive types by heir elemental nature, she [double water] more than him [fiery earth]. To me that somehow hints at victim roles.
Our once fiery King seems very stuck in that dark and cold corner; displaying a rather stoic demeanor I´d say. Our double watery queen though is located on the fiery Y position, actually that of the Father or King - the boss.
So how on earth did she end up on that unfamilar male position, that actually weakens her power in elemental terms ?
To me this is the most important question to start with.
Did she bring herself in that unfavorable, unstable pos. or what happened ? From my understanding something must have happened to him that dampend or locked up his Fire, something made him give up a stronger kingly position and end up in that final Heh rut, urging her to move over to that weak Y pos. to take over the initiative and save what´s left.
Did he get sick, lose his job, his love for her / interest in the relationship, his ♂ ...
I missed the Significator, but the nature of the question however [love/relationsh.-Water] points to the first Heh.
Can we interpret the weak 2W [PHB: stalemate] as the possible causa ? Left side ["unfriendly" elements Earth and Air] VERY "strong", right side ["friendly" elements Water and Fire] weak. Where´s the soul [~Y+H] in that relationship, where´s the passion ?
In the Thoth deck, the QoC doesn´t seem to have too much of a head ["sitting/running around like a chicken without a head"], and the stoic KoP looks like he´s waiting for something to happen [dinner time ?].
Most of the remaining action in that relationship is concentrated on V, in form of that very strong air [again], but without any too active fire [his King aspect ?] to heat things up, there isn´t even anything to discharge.
This looks pretty much like the situation you already described rif. Thoughts, maybe some form of nagging [8Sw] or demands, with her being more active than him [reactive, if at all], yadda yadda, round and round all over again, blindly keeping something going on at all, possibly slowly consuming up his remaining fire/power and driving him even more into that powerless corner, further into himself.
Interestingly all 4 elements necessary for a harmonic [not too adventorous :)] partnership are present, albeit in less than fortunate positions and proportions [8Sw].
As always I hesitate to give any predictions or advice, just a question: what does he really want ?
[A classical combination you´d find in a partner therapy, the suggestion again most probably coming from her.]

Anyone else ?