The RWS 'stage cards'

I have not read that book on Numerlogy Bee! I have been trying to find it.
Thanks for the info.

Kosmoran- I have seen the Tarotpedia link (Great site)
What I am curious about is that people's perceptions as applied to the card (stage card)

Take any of the stage cards, look at it and tell me how these points might apply? I took V111 Pentacles.
.....isolation or separation, Dreams, deceptions, or illusions, something that is just for show, the existence of a barrier between the people on the stage and the scene in the background or either a desire for or a discounting of that which is pictured in the background.

The only thing I could come up with is there is some sort of Masonic/Rosicrucian ideal or idea coming through (that I do not understand). Some sort of application to ritual, that might have been included in the deck. I did not know anything about the ritual of Golden Dawn when I first used RWS. Still do not really. I cannot see a Kabbalistic connection for stage cards either.
Waite seemed to disapprove of Fortune telling and maybe this deck was for complex applications of ritual to reach divine enlightenment- I do not know.

~Rosanne

That book seemed to be really interesting. I discovered a used book store close to me that has it - I think I'm gonna buy it

In the 8 of Pentacles example, I think the guy is isolated from the world because he's too focused on his work. If we compare both the 8 and the 3 of Pentacles (two cards that deal with work), we can see that work in the 3 of Pentacles is something that requires team work and involvement with the world (other people, a group), while the 8 seems to describe a more solitary work, something that you do by yourself.
This isolation/separation approach can be well applied to some cards - the Two of Cups, for instance, where the couple is separated from the world because they're in love with each other...

Your chisel/hammer association is really interesting too, I've never thought about it that way.

Rosanne: Waite seemed to disapprove of Fortune telling and maybe this deck was for complex applications of ritual to reach divine enlightenment- I do not know.

Click to expand...

The RW deck was primarily devised for working on the Tree of Life. So yes, it was for ritual Temple work. The old tarot (TdM etc.) was 'adapted' for this purpose, it was never intended for divination.

I know nothing about Stage cards, but am now wondering if they coincide with the 'levels' on the Tree. First you'd have to know the RW arrangement of the cards on the Tree, then see which level/area they fall in....... just a suggestion.

There are of course other possibilites, the Worlds for instance (depending on the Scale used - a generally used one was the Queen Scale).

Bee

The cards that are stage cover all the spheres except keter. All the twos- therefore wisdom/Chochma. Pentacles and Wands 4's etc etc. I cannot see a pattern that is other than my earlier idea of do's and don't's.

Maybe there is some sort of code like the Sign of the Cross for Catholics- right temple, right shoulder etc etc. I have not a clue. Of course the code, if there is one, could indicate the cards that Pamela worked on herself without Waite.
If you relate to them by keys on a piano- it plays something like Mary had a little lamb depending how you place the order of the suits.
Then of course there is..... It may not mean anything at all.

If it is to do with the Tree of Life- why is it so obscure- you should see a pattern. I know the Golden Dawn was full of obscurification and Waite loved a mystery, but really......
~Rosanne

Ah hah! I see what you mean. It initially looks as if there may be a pattern, but then disintegrates........ could they be Cards of Allegory?

Could there even be 16 allegories, also would there be any significance in the fact that 16 is exactly half of 32 (32 Paths of Glory) ?

Bee

Wow Roseanne and Bernice, the two of you are way over my head in discussing the stage cards in these terms I am paying attention nonetheless and think it is interesting, do say more!

I personally think that the stage cards are certainly dramatic, and Pamela Coleman Smith being very involved with the theatre and designing set pieces, perhaps meant to indicate literally that life is a stage and we act out out parts and make our choices publicly whether we like it or not. People are always in on the drama!

In "Pictures from the Heart" Sandra Thomson has a section on the Stage Cards and offers the following possibilities:

1. What appears to be going on may be an illusion or a fiction. What is going on behind the scenes?

2. The people in the card are projecting an image on the backdrop "skrim". They envision the scene, and manifest it through their will and focused attention.

3. The stage cards refer to a sense of existential isolation, a separation of feeling, or a distancing, from the existing world that is a part of the deep truth or need(s) for the figure on the card.
This one isn't too difficult for me to go with since PCS through her writing and other artwork often has isolation as a theme.

That's an interesting take on them minrice. I especially noticed this that you said, "..perhaps meant to indicate literally that life is a stage and we act out out parts and make our choices publicly..." (my bold type).

Are these 16 events or experiences public ones, outer occurances rather than inner?

Bee

Hi minrice! Thanks for the additional information.

Now I have been staring at these cards and the minors minus the Courts- I should know them like the back of my hand.
I must admit they are all really like stage sets even when there is not the obvious stage lines, as minrice said very dramatic.

I don't do this often- but I went looking for the most common Keywords used for the cards to see if there was something recognisable there for the 16 cards as an allegory as Bee suggested.

:frown: :scrowl: Nah!

Not even a consistent astrological pattern like the decans- but you can see Golden Dawn's reliance on Picatrix and maybe -just maybe these cards show a deviation from Etteila to Waite's meanings.
The other option is that there are sixteen Courts- maybe each card somehow introduces the idea of a Court card (getting obscure here myself )
Then I noticed that the non staged cards are similar in design to the Sola Busca deck- maybe that is the clue?
I just think they might be the cards that Pamela could see on stage lol.

~Rosanne

I have an idea.....
Calling an authentic Mason to the table.... You are out there, I know you are!

Can you see Masonic ritual expressed in these Staged cards?

~Rosanne

"Can you see Masonic ritual expressed in these Staged cards?"

Ooh! I never thought of that! ........dressing up, 'staging' a ritual... maybe you've hit the nail on the head with this

So, let's have another good, close look at the images. (nobody in a pinny, but that would be too obvious...).

Bee