Further Thoughts on TdM Pips

Barleywine

That is the method I use, except I apply it only to the pips 1-10, not the court cards:

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Thanks! That was my thinking, too: the court cards don't need to be associated, their meaning is already clear enough.
 

BSwett

It seems to me there's basically four possibilities for reading with pip cards:

1) Numerology (in which I include any esoteric correspondence including astrology, GD, pips-as-trumps, etc., which when you boil them down are really simply different ways to assign meanings to numbers and suits)

2) Mentally linking the cards with the corresponding illustrations in scenic-pip decks (could be RWS or other-than-RWS)

3) Memorizing non-numerical meanings for the cards (for example, as in the Personal Prophesy/The Message playing-card system by Deborah Leigh, or as in Etteilla), in which meanings are assigned to cards seemingly at random, without regard to card number)

4) Interpreting the images and parts of images like a Rorschach test, with no regard for predetermined meanings, a la Enrique

A while back I read Lee's LoS TdM book, and there I found my favourite way to the pip cards and haven't looked back since.... even though I've noticed, that Lee himself has perhaps abandoned this pip technique....

Here's a link to an old thread I started about this 'storyline' approach:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=195984

:)

B.
 

Sherryl

By "anecdotal" I mean fashioning a fluid, imaginitive - perhaps "visionary" in its best sense - narrative out of the discrete "story" elements of the spread, rather than just factually ennumerating its components. I want to tell a compelling story, not just recite the alphabet. I want as much "juice" as I can get out of my readings. Getting caught up in the kind of "deconstructionist" mentality implied in some methods of interpretation strikes me as more than a little anemic.

I'm a bit late jumping into this conversation, but Barleywine describes perfectly the kind of reading style I'm striving for. I try to see each pip card as a vortex of energy rather than as a signifier for a set of symbols or meanings. On my Tarot-Heritage website, in the Cartomancy section, I have a series of suggestions for how to look closely at each card in the context of the other pip cards in a way that will bring out the unique personality of each one. I don't use Qabalah or any other system, and I keep numerology and elements to a minimum. If you get up-close and personal with the cards, you really don't need external labels like "five of air" (although that can help when you get stuck for inspiration during a reading).
 

Barleywine

A while back I read Lee's LoS TdM book, and there I found my favourite way to the pip cards and haven't looked back since.... even though I've noticed, that Lee himself has perhaps abandoned this pip technique....

Here's a link to an old thread I started about this 'storyline' approach:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=195984

:)

B.

Thanks for the link. I saved your examples for future inspiration, since that's exactly the metaphorical way I like to read.
 

Barleywine

I'm a bit late jumping into this conversation, but Barleywine describes perfectly the kind of reading style I'm striving for. I try to see each pip card as a vortex of energy rather than as a signifier for a set of symbols or meanings. On my Tarot-Heritage website, in the Cartomancy section, I have a series of suggestions for how to look closely at each card in the context of the other pip cards in a way that will bring out the unique personality of each one. I don't use Qabalah or any other system, and I keep numerology and elements to a minimum. If you get up-close and personal with the cards, you really don't need external labels like "five of air" (although that can help when you get stuck for inspiration during a reading).

I went and took a look. Very nice stuff. I like the way you approach the increasing "busy-ness" of the pips as they evolve from Ace to Ten. I'll be spending some time there!
 

Richard

There seem to be some bizarre rules about reading the TdM pips: Try to avoid numerology, elements, etc. (even though the so-called Western Magical Tradition may characterize one's approach to everyday life). It reminds me of the mind-set I find convenient when attending an evangelical church: Leave your brains outside the door, and all will be well.

For some people, the way of least resistance may be to avoid using the TdM at all. For me, however, since I find the TdM to be irresistibly attractive, perhaps it is best just to avoid using the minors. Although such a truncated deck may be less suitable for casual divination, it is certainly feasible for meditation.
 

Lee

For some people, the way of least resistance may be to avoid using the TdM at all. For me, however, since I find the TdM to be irresistibly attractive, perhaps it is best just to avoid using the minors. Although such a truncated deck may be less suitable for casual divination, it is certainly feasible for meditation.
I never really tried it, but a deck with only trumps, aces, and courts would, I think, be great for casual divination. Sallie Nichols reads this way in her book "Jung and Tarot." That would give you 42 cards, six more than Lenormand decks.
 

Richard

I never really tried it, but a deck with only trumps, aces, and courts would, I think, be great for casual divination. Sallie Nichols reads this way in her book "Jung and Tarot." That would give you 42 cards, six more than Lenormand decks.
Yes, that's certainly a good option: include all the picture cards. That Nichols book is brilliant in many ways.
 

Barleywine

For some people, the way of least resistance may be to avoid using the TdM at all. For me, however, since I find the TdM to be irresistibly attractive, perhaps it is best just to avoid using the minors. Although such a truncated deck may be less suitable for casual divination, it is certainly feasible for meditation.

In my case, it's more about trying to step back from the pervasive Golden Dawn model and the "canned story" imagery of the scenic pips. I'm not looking for the path of least resistance, but rather a reliable path through the thicket. Obviously, numbers and elements existed in esoteric thought long before the TdM was used for its present purpose, so it makes sense to start there. If I can get it to flow with reasonable consistency in reading, I'll feel that I'm on the right track. I see it as a fascinating challenge, not something to be shunted off to the side as unworkable. It does seem, though, that the cards other than the trumps were never intended to bear the philosophical weight we insist on loading them up with. Of course, I don't suppose that will ever stop anyone. It seems to be the nature of the beast.
 

Sherryl

For me, however, since I find the TdM to be irresistibly attractive, perhaps it is best just to avoid using the minors. Although such a truncated deck may be less suitable for casual divination, it is certainly feasible for meditation.

Actually, in France, and to some extent in Italy, they use only the trumps for divination. Most how-to-read books in French only deal with the trumps. Enrique Enriquez and a few other TdM teachers in the USA either read only with the trumps, or suggest that beginners start with just the trumps, as the pips are seen as more difficult. I disagree. This seems to be a mental wall put up by people who can't imagine reading without images as a crutch.