Why have no Golden Dawn decks turned up?

Zephyros

In our day and age, when television shows like Antique Road Show and others encourage people to look in their attics, old things turn up all the time. And there were relatively many member of the Golden Dawn. Still, no decks, even inferior ones belonging to obscure members, have ever surfaced. Why is this? It seems almost a statistical impossibility. Somewhere, somehow there must have been the odd member who tossed their deck into a box and shoved it somewhere, or died and their children didn't know what to do with it and stored it somewhere.

I mean, it isn't as though the GD made a rule of destroying members' decks, is it?
 

Richard

In our day and age, when television shows like Antique Road Show and others encourage people to look in their attics, old things turn up all the time. And there were relatively many member of the Golden Dawn. Still, no decks, even inferior ones belonging to obscure members, have ever surfaced. Why is this? It seems almost a statistical impossibility. Somewhere, somehow there must have been the odd member who tossed their deck into a box and shoved it somewhere, or died and their children didn't know what to do with it and stored it somewhere.

I mean, it isn't as though the GD made a rule of destroying members' decks, is it?
Most of the decks probably looked like crap and were thrown away by the members themselves or their families.
 

ravenest

In our day and age, when television shows like Antique Road Show and others encourage people to look in their attics, old things turn up all the time. And there were relatively many member of the Golden Dawn. Still, no decks, even inferior ones belonging to obscure members, have ever surfaced. Why is this? It seems almost a statistical impossibility. Somewhere, somehow there must have been the odd member who tossed their deck into a box and shoved it somewhere, or died and their children didn't know what to do with it and stored it somewhere.

I mean, it isn't as though the GD made a rule of destroying members' decks, is it?




1. Would you like to buy one ? - They are rather expensive })

2. Was making your own deck and colouring it in the GD needed to make a grade or just recommended?

I ask this as Regardie commented that (even back in his time) he was told to just study and do the work required to pass the exam for the next grade ... which rather turned him off ... he wanted rounded training as an initiate.

If that was the flavour many may not have 'bothered' to do it.

A bit like the best way (often recommended) to learn the Enochian arrangement is to draw up and paint the tablets ... how many have done that?

IME people talk and even write a lot but not many have a temple, make or fashion tools, regalia etc. or comprehensive practical experience.

Personal experience in similar situation ;

Teacher ( magick , karate or many other things): "You need to read these books and learn these things and then get examined on x y z to go to the next level."

Student: "Will I be examined on the books and the learning as well as the x y z ?"

Teacher: " You need to read the books and learn the things to go to the next level."

Student: " But they are not in the exam, right ?"

3. Some old GD regalia survives, maybe there are some with that. I am not sure where it is now, I think it WAS in new Zealand ?


Its possible they got destroyed ... I mean, what's going to happen to all my stuff. If I move back to my cabin there is the old storage problem again ... when I get old(er) and dotti(er) what happens to it then? And when I go? I am sure no one will want to hold onto that stuff.

Old Freemasonic regalia goes to the dump (unless it is very good and there is space in the Lodge or museum storage room - which there isn't).
 

ravenest

Most of the decks probably looked like crap and were thrown away by the members themselves or their families.

Would you like to buy one (and yes the real authentic ones ARE painted like crap ... and rather hastily).
 

Richard

Would you like to buy one (and yes the real authentic ones ARE painted like crap ... and rather hastily).
I am not worthy to own such a treasure. })
 

Grigori

There would be very few of these tarots ever in existence, despite the numbers who belonged to the original GD (which is what, maybe a couple of hundred?). The details of the GD tarot were progressively revealed during initiations, and the details of Book T were a secret of the inner order. So despite the membership numbers in the early grades, its only the members in the advanced grades who would have gotten Book T and presumably only some who would have made their own deck from that. I wonder how many ever actually existed, perhaps only a handful, or even less.
 

DavidMcCann

Crowley must have had a copy, but it's not in the Warburg Institute: they have the originals of the Thoth and his correspondence with Frieda Harris, but not his GD cards. A lot of people will only have made the trumps for meditation and used modern tarots for divination: Yeats had a Milanese pack.
 

Zephyros

Most of the decks probably looked like crap and were thrown away by the members themselves or their families.

Probably, but also keep in mind that although members came from many walks of life, it was also was of the most socially polarized epochs in history. Keeping that in mind, "all walks of life" at that time is probably a far more limited term than we would use today. That means many members would have received a classical education, which included rudimentary drawing. Not everyone might have talent, but many of them would have some sort of technique.

There would be very few of these tarots ever in existence, despite the numbers who belonged to the original GD (which is what, maybe a couple of hundred?). The details of the GD tarot were progressively revealed during initiations, and the details of Book T were a secret of the inner order. So despite the membership numbers in the early grades, its only the members in the advanced grades who would have gotten Book T and presumably only some who would have made their own deck from that. I wonder how many ever actually existed, perhaps only a handful, or even less.

This makes sense, and also explains, to a degree, the ultimate fate of the GD. Well, I guess I was hoping one would be found, heaven knows so much other old crap is constantly uncovered.
 

gregory

There is quite a lot of information about this in the Yeats exhibition in Dublin. Apparently many of them were such crap at drawing they'd either use an existing deck and colour it up, or get someone who COULD draw to do theirs for them.

You can take a virtual tour - the GD area is quite easy to find.

http://www.nli.ie/yeats/

They have at least one of the original notebooks - one by (um oops ) Pollexpen. And the exhibit does show a couple of decks "as used by"... but they aren't created by them. It's as BITCH to find but there is a rather interesting video on there about Yeats and the occult. It's in the "Thoor Ballylee" room...
 

Grigori

A thought occurred to me. Does anyone know if Regardie created his own GD style deck? While he was a late joiner near the end of the original GD, he did follow the GD path throughout his life and was an input into both the Wang and Cicero tarots. It seems he was close to the Cicero's up till his death, and initiated them in the order and established them as significant people and leaders in the modern GD. If any deck exists, it seems more likely that the Cicero's may hold Regardie's deck. I wonder...