Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Live Tarot Readings Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

Interesting Combinations using a three card system for courts

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot > Using Tarot Cards


 
celticnoodle's Avatar
celticnoodle  celticnoodle is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 Aug 2006
Location: across from spook hill
Posts: 29,152
celticnoodle 
Citizen

celticnoodle's Avatar

I guess I would have to admit that her writing is not as easy to understand at times as I would like it to be. I truly found the hardest part being that I don't use the same meanings to the cards that she does, and so when I am reading through the pages, I have to remember for example, that I do not see the fours as such troubling cards, like she does.

however, that said, I do think she has some interesting things to teach. If you are also going to use her method strictly with playing cards, it may be much easier to understand, as long as you again adopt her meanings for each card/suit.

since this discussion picked up again, I have been thumbing through the book on more information with the face cards--since, let's admit, the court cards are definately the hardest cards to read for most people. Reading page 158-159 helps also with court cards, if you happen to get 3 court cards together in a trio.

first of all, you need to understand that when you do see 3 face cards it indicates (in her opinion) that your social life is improving, or at least will be in an "upswing with new friends, colleagues, and incresed contact with others." this also would indicate "new opportunities to become productively involed with others are on the way to bring new shape and meaning to their lives." this makes total sense to me---but would anyway in the way that LB first described court cards too.

what i like most here is when Deborah Leigh tells us to pay attention to the way the faces on the court cards are looking. If they are looking to the left, then they are looking at us--then 'consider the message to be that you will share meaningful,close-knit relationships with these individuals who have yet to enter your life."

"on the other hand, those face cards which you find turned away from you hold the intuitive message that these relationships will be far more casual but nonetheless meaningful stepping stones to a more rewarding people connected future in the long run".

I also use this same method with the tarot cards that have any individual in the card. I pay close attention to how the face is turned, as well as the expression in their face. Yes, I guess this is common sense for readers, or maybe it is not. When I first began to read cards, it was with a playing cards deck--and the court cards were always a handful. then i went to tarot, and did actually find tarot a bit easier to read, except again those terrible court cards. I can't recall when or where I learned to pay attention to the faces in the people on the cards--or to read the cards that are layed out as the left being in the past and the right the future. but it sure makes sense now and helps with reading tarot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rif
In general, I think "The Message" is well-written. It has the tone of a kind and optimistic friend who truly wants to help you. I think it has value in general, with respect to reading cards. I don't mean to claim it's a top-10 book for me, but I do think it gives a lot of useful guidance on the reading process.

As for the question about how courts are described -- I'm at work now, but I'd be happy to check for how the court reading is written up when I'm at home, if anyone would like.
Rif, I'd be interested, please. I do not have this book -yet-, but since hearing about it, am interested in knowing how this book works--so please do share some of things you find most helpful. thanks.
Top   #131
Satori's Avatar
Satori  Satori is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,103
Satori 
Citizen

Satori's Avatar

Robert Place taught ath the Reader's Studio some years ago and did a whole thing on when figures are back to back, face to face and the energy of the gaze, where the eyes were directed etc. It really changed the way I read the cards, and was probably one of the most exciting things I learned because it made so much sense.

Scion has the notes about the exact names of what he called these positions, and I will ask him for them. I just use the system now naturally, so don't remember the different names Place had for the positions.

You are right though Celticnoodle, it is one of the ways to really create sense from the cards. EnriqueEnriquez also teaches some things about the way people face in the cards.

I haven't jumped on the bandwagon yet because the one system I actually own and like is the Playing Card Oracles. I'm not saying that I don't think learning other systems wouldn't be valuable, but so far any actual study I've done with the cards has been with this system. I have no idea how those meanings stack up against other playing card meanings.

I can't give a firm commitment to you all, other than to say I am following this thread, and will follow any other creation of a study group by this fabulous little circle with interest.

Plus, now that we have seen what LB was working from I think that the talent he shows is pretty impressive. The kudos should go to him for being able to create a working model from what appears to be a rather confusing and perhaps constrictive system?
Top   #132
celticnoodle's Avatar
celticnoodle  celticnoodle is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 Aug 2006
Location: across from spook hill
Posts: 29,152
celticnoodle 
Citizen

celticnoodle's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satori
now that we have seen what LB was working from I think that the talent he shows is pretty impressive. The kudos should go to him for being able to create a working model from what appears to be a rather confusing and perhaps constrictive system?
I agree! LB hasn't been on here of late--but it would be interesting to know if he still stands by this book and has learned any other interesting ways to adapt the readings of playing cards to reading the tarot.

LB, where are thou???
Top   #133
Bernice's Avatar
Bernice  Bernice is offline
Denizen of the Coalsack Nebula
 
Join Date: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Central England
Posts: 3,901
Bernice 
Denizen of the Coalsack Nebula

Bernice's Avatar

Thank you for your posting rif Your description of how the author gets her card meanings across is exactly how I should have said it. (But didn't...)

Satori will also be pleased to hear that you are happy with The Message.

I've posted a couple of sample readings, with the 3-card-court method, here;

http://tazmaria.multiply.com/photos/...esy_cards.%231

Is this how you're supposed to 'read' it?
--------

Quote:
celticnoodle: "on the other hand, those face cards which you find turned away from you hold the intuitive message that these relationships will be far more casual but nonetheless meaningful stepping stones to a more rewarding people connected future in the long run".
Opps... casual - not ignoring each other. MUST remember that! These nuggets of info. are sandwiched inside other texts.......
----

Quote:
Satori: Robert Place taught at the Reader's Studio some years ago and did a whole thing on when figures are back to back, face to face and the energy of the gaze, where the eyes were directed etc. It really changed the way I read the cards, and was probably one of the most exciting things I learned because it made so much sense.

Scion has the notes about the exact names of what he called these positions, and I will ask him for them. I just use the system now naturally, so don't remember the different names Place had for the positions.
......................
.......................
Plus, now that we have seen what LB was working from I think that the talent he shows is pretty impressive. The kudos should go to him for being able to create a working model from what appears to be a rather confusing and perhaps constrictive system?
Ooooh! More info. on the court cards, and from Rob Place! Thank you Satori.
Yep, I agree. Little Baron seems to have cracked it - and has probably enhanced it.

Bee :
Top   #134
rif's Avatar
rif  rif is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 782
rif 
Citizen

rif's Avatar

I'm going to just paraphrase and summarize from The Message here. This is not in one section; rather, it's material that appears throughout the book.

The main layout used in the book is described as a layout of multiple spreads, where each spread has three cards. That is, the Personal Prophecy layout consists of eight triplets that are each assigned a general meaning; and each triplet is called a spread and interpreted individually.

The reader is always thought of as being on the left of the spread. You experience the cards from left to right; think of yourself as being on the receiving end of each spread.

Follow a 1+1+1=____ equation; build up the meanings by feeling each card from left to right. Suppose two of the cards give "pain" and "loss."

If they appear in front of a face card, these are felt by yourself in the future. If they appear behind a face card, they belong to the individual represented by the face card. If there is no face card, all three meanings would belong to you.

Face card looking left = turned towards you. Is focused on you, your shared relationship, your needs. Looking right = turned away from you, and not focused on you or your relationship or needs.

Faces looking left are people who base their lives on the past; looking right, base their lives on the future.

A spread of all face cards means a message involving social life or interactions; for work, this could be networking.

*whew* There's a bit more than that, but that seems to be the gist, which should be enough to compare to LB's method or for contrast to "Personal Prophecy." It seems fairly straightforward to me. Ms. Leigh does refer to the innuendos (I think nuances would be a better word) available in the face cards, which the reader will understand better with time; and she also makes mention of how they represent people currently in your life, and how that will change for you over time. Plus how you will get better at knowing who a court card represents.

ETA: Looking back at the original post, I thought I would add one more point from "The Message." If a face card is "bearing," for example, a negative card, it means to be cautious because that person has the potential to be untrue to you. I'm not sure what she means by bearing but I assume the card following (to the right of) the court card. This makes sense to me, what do you think?

This is different from LB's system. Notably, the querent is never represented BY a court card; the querent is always implied as being on the left of the triplet. LB does say he adapted; so either that's his own invention, or Ms. Leigh has changed her system in the newer book. Court cards always represent someone else in "The Message." LB sometimes has a court card as a person, so perhaps he adapted that in order to keep with tarot tradition when the court card can be an aspect of oneself.
Top   #135
Welf's Avatar
Welf  Welf is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 07 Apr 2009
Location: Down The Track Australia
Posts: 272
Welf 
Citizen

Welf's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernice
I've posted a couple of sample readings, with the 3-card-court method, here;

http://tazmaria.multiply.com/photos/...esy_cards.%231

Is this how you're supposed to 'read' it?
I was going to post last night, but ended up getting carried away reading threads and burning the midnight oil in the Kabbalah & Alphabets Forum... lots of good fun in there.. lol... And then, buggarit (good old Aussie expression) .... sleep and everyday life got in the way... I hate when that happens...

What you have done there in that link pretty well looks like the gist of how I have understood this method to work.. Could this method somehow be used in spreads of more than 3 cards? Some of the earlier posts here are quite informative... I think this is worth persuing.. I probably wouldn't necessarily use her particular meanings when reading the playing cards, but I'm thinking if I do want to buy the book, I can always buy the eBook version. Then I can read it and print up those bits which interest me...

I already spent the money I was going to spend on Personal Prophesy after I cancelled my order.... (didn't take long).... I found a shop here which still has a few decks of the Bohemian Gothic Deck left and for only $2 more than the book would have cost me... But then I did dig in deeper and spent extra and got a Bohemian Gothic tarot bag to keep the cards in with a picture of the Queen of Swords card on it... very nice..... Talk about class... It's for my Goth daughter who doesn't read Tarot, but would love the artwork.. Definately not for me, I keep telling myself..... well..... ..... ... . ***

I'm interested in this method and am slowly trying to incorperate the Court positioning when reading the first few cards of the Celtic Cross.. Though I have, ever since I can remember, taken the way a Court faces into consideration (upright and rx Courts), same like I make a quick scan at what the elemental dignitaries are...

Welf
Top   #136
Welf's Avatar
Welf  Welf is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 07 Apr 2009
Location: Down The Track Australia
Posts: 272
Welf 
Citizen

Welf's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by rif
This is different from LB's system. Notably, the querent is never represented BY a court card; the querent is always implied as being on the left of the triplet. LB does say he adapted; so either that's his own invention, or Ms. Leigh has changed her system in the newer book. Court cards always represent someone else in "The Message." LB sometimes has a court card as a person, so perhaps he adapted that in order to keep with tarot tradition when the court card can be an aspect of oneself.
Nice.. might take me a bit to figure out the nitty gritty of your post, but no doubt, I eventually will... I'm doggered enough for that...

Now.... that would be interesting to see if what we have here is an adaptation by LB about where the Querent lies... then see how it reads in The Personal Prophesy... And if she did happen to change it in The Message, wonder why?

Owhh.... I love threads like this.... Might have to have a squizz at both books after all...

Welf
Top   #137
Bernice's Avatar
Bernice  Bernice is offline
Denizen of the Coalsack Nebula
 
Join Date: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Central England
Posts: 3,901
Bernice 
Denizen of the Coalsack Nebula

Bernice's Avatar

Quote:
rif:...Could this method somehow be used in spreads of more than 3 cards? Some of the earlier posts here are quite informative... I think this is worth persuing.. I probably wouldn't necessarily use her particular meanings when reading the playing cards,...
My thoughts too!
Have you given the Tarot Bag to your daughter? "It's for my Goth daughter.... "

Quote:
Welf: Now.... that would be interesting to see if what we have here is an adaptation by LB about where the Querent lies... then see how it reads in The Personal Prophesy... And if she did happen to change it in The Message, wonder why?
I still can't find a reference to exactly how the court-card-thing is done. Further enlightenment might lie buried within the pages of blah-blah. I wish the information had been set out clearly...... frustrating!

And WHERE is Little Baron? Someone do a spell and get him back here pronto - we're floundering....

Bee
Top   #138
Bernice's Avatar
Bernice  Bernice is offline
Denizen of the Coalsack Nebula
 
Join Date: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Central England
Posts: 3,901
Bernice 
Denizen of the Coalsack Nebula

Bernice's Avatar
Final Review


I've spent several hours re-reading this book - carefully going over each & every page in case any 'nuggets' of info. were buried in there.

--------------------------
FINAL CONCLUSION

I wish I hadn't spent my money on it.

This book is comprised of 283 pages, of which only 111 pages contain pertinent information regarding the Prophesy 'method'.

If I were to include a couple of the romantic/love/emotional baggage 'councellor -type' of chapters, the number of useful pages would be ... wait for it... 119 . ie: A little more than 50 percent of the book has no actual information about a Cartomancy Method.

The 'meat' of the cartomancy is two Spreads and the 52 card meanings. However, aside from the pip cards which do have some useful and interesting small-chapter coverage, the Court card descriptions are very sketchy. Paraphrase = "One will intuitively discover to whom they will apply..."

The other 172 pages are filled with a varity of affirmations, 'counsellor-type' blah-blah, and the sort of thing that is usually seen with advertising flim-flam.

If you're open to different meanings for the pip cards, this might be just the book for you. But IMHO it would then be well overpriced.

I would not recommend this book to anyone who was new to Cartomancy with playing cards. (or any other cards, come to that.)

I would recommend it to people who are into affirmations, emotional issues, and relationship issues. . We're all different (thank goodness), but this just 'aint my cup of tea at all.

------------------------

The posts by Little Baron are more-or-less the crux of the 'method'; more clearly described, and better worded. And even if LBs posts were adapted from the P.P., his approach works.

A very disappointed Bee
Top   #139
Satori's Avatar
Satori  Satori is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,103
Satori 
Citizen

Satori's Avatar

So, how does the book The Message compare? This is really what I need to know. Is it just more of the same, or is the difference?

There was a co-author, I'm wondering if the other author added in the psycho-babble.

Bee, is there an email addie or contact page for the Deb. L.?
Top   #140


 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

The Aeclectic Tarot Forum closed permanently on July 14th, 2017. The public threads remain online as a read-only archive and resource. More information on our decision can be found here. Thank you for being a part of our active community over the past seventeen years.

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.