Lawsuit/Legal Proceedings In SR Charts

Good evening,

I am considering bringing legal action against a company that I had bad dealings with last year for negligence and liability.

After speaking to an attorney today, I pulled out my SR chart to see if I could find any indication that I have a good chance of winning a legal judgement against an opponent (I'm not adept at horary, so I stick to return charts and progressions).

My question is this: I know I am represented by the Asc ruler, and the Desc ruler reps the opponent. But this is where my confusion is. Does the Desc ruler rep the attorney as well? Or does the 9th house ruler rep the attorney? Where exactly do I find the attorney, the person who advocates on behalf of me?

OR should I just give up this whole SR chart shindig business and try to fumble my way through a horary?

Suggestions? thx!

Horary is a more reliable indicator if you're talking about a specific lawsuit, I think. But in any chart, first house is you, second house is your allies and retainers (this would be the attorney you hire to represent you), seventh house is the opponent, eighth is their retainers and allies (their lawyer), the judge is the tenth house, and the outcome is the fourth house.

You might want to look at the general balance in your return chart of good and bad this year, but yeah, if the question isn't already 'asked' so to speak, I'd go with a horary for it.

You can't read an SR chart as though it were radical. It's a derived chart and it has to be read in conjunction with the natal chart. It is too general to derive a specific conclusion about a specific event, though it will help you to get a flavour of what the year has in store and in what areas. Most of the early users tied it in with related and superior (in the sense of taking precedence) techniques such as time lords or primary directions, as well as inferior techniques such as transits. Modern users seem to have dropped the 'superior' techniques.

For this specific issue, horary is probably better and there's no reason why you can't combine the horary with the SR. That is if the horary says you will win and SR shows favourable ninth house circumstances then sue.

Which house is the attorney.? It depends on the basis on which you consulted him. If it was for advice on whether you have a case, he's ninth house - the expert. If you employed him to take your case to court then Chanah's right, he becomes your second, or helper and he's second house.

He can therefore start off as ninth and become second, depending on what hi advice is and whether you act on it.

Venusian said:

After speaking to an attorney today, I pulled out my SR chart to see if I could find any indication that I have a good chance of winning a legal judgement against an opponent

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Minderwiz said:

You can't read an SR chart as though it were radical. It's a derived chart and it has to be read in conjunction with the natal chart.

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Right, this is what I have always done, I don't know any other way of reading a SR.

Minderwiz said:

It is too general to derive a specific conclusion about a specific event, though it will help you to get a flavour of what the year has in store and in what areas.

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Understood, as I wasn't looking for a specific answer, I was looking for an indication of legal proceedings during the SR year to analyze the "flavour" of how I would be supported should I enter into them. I'm not of the notion that I could see via an SR whether I would actually win a case, just whether or not the chart looks as if it supports that kind of endeavor should I enter into it.

So I will look to the 9th until the time comes that I acquire an actual attorney. Thank you so much!!

I really appreciate the responses.

Venusian said:

Right, this is what I have always done, I don't know any other way of reading a SR.

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I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. 'Right you've always read it as a radical chart' or 'Right you've always read it in conjunction with your natal chart'.

If you're following a modern approach to Astrology, you might have a look at Dave's book or posts (Dadsnook2000) on SR charts.

If you're following a traditional approach, then I can give you a few pointers.

Dave is a good start but I haven't heard from him lately.

Venusian said:

Understood, as I wasn't looking for a specific answer, I was looking for an indication of legal proceedings during the SR year to analyze the "flavour" of how I would be supported should I enter into them. I'm not of the notion that I could see via an SR whether I would actually win a case, just whether or not the chart looks as if it supports that kind of endeavor should I enter into it.

So I will look to the 9th until the time comes that I acquire an actual attorney. Thank you so much!!

I really appreciate the responses.

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Just remember the natal ninth and indeed the SR ninth are much more general than Law suits. Good indicators there might mean you're going on a foreign holiday or you start/finish a higher education course, or indeed develop an interest in Astrology.

Minderwiz said:

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. 'Right you've always read it as a radical chart' or 'Right you've always read it in conjunction with your natal chart'.

If you're following a modern approach to Astrology, you might have a look at Dave's book or posts (Dadsnook2000) on SR charts.

If you're following a traditional approach, then I can give you a few pointers.

Dave is a good start but I haven't heard from him lately.

Just remember the natal ninth and indeed the SR ninth are much more general than Law suits. Good indicators there might mean you're going on a foreign holiday or you start/finish a higher education course, or indeed develop an interest in Astrology.

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Sorry for the ambiguity. Was saying that I've always read my SRs in conjunction with my natal chart.

In fact, my SR chart brings my natal 7th to the Asc, one of the initial indicators that had me wondering what that would be about this SR year. Though my birthday was 6 months ago, I'm seeing now how that may manifest through this potential lawsuit.

Thank you so much for the great advice!

Dave is here.

Solar Returns have been viewed from various perspectives and used in many ways. Most astrologers cast a Solar Return without realizing just what is the FULL basis of the chart. Yes, we all know that it is a chart for when the Sun returns to its natal position --- EXCEPT that can be the first mistake one makes. We can start by recognizing three different types of Solar Returns: 1) a Tropical zodiac S/R, 2) a Sidereal zodiac S/R, and 3) a precession corrected Tropical Solar Return.
** The Tropical zodiac S/R is what most astrologers use without thinking about their choices. More about this later.
** The Sidereal zodiac S/R not only gives you different sign placements about the chart but the "time" of the S/R chart and house placement of the Sun is usually different from a Tropical S/R chart.
** A precession-corrected Tropical S/R chart will have the same time and house placement as the Sidereal S/R chart but the Tropical signs will be different compared to the orientation of the Sidereal signs.

Solar Returns are actually cyclic charts. When one looks at the MC sign-degree for two or more sequential Solar Returns it becomes apparent that the MC shifts (advances) by some 90 degrees or three signs from one year to the next and that the Sun position is shifted by some three houses from the prior year. This is indicative of a CYCLE. That cycle starts at birth and continues through the annual Solar Returns for one's entire life. Being a cycle, there is a method of progressing/advancing the MC and Ascendant from one day to the next for each/all days between Solar Returns. The S/R gives us a "theme" for the year, the progressed daily angle charts provide a timing and description of events through the planets that are contacted by the angles of the daily chart.
** Tropical astrologers do not use the S/R as a cyclic chart but instead rely upon either transits or the progressed Moon to indicate events and expressions of situations.
** Sidereal astrologers and those using p.c. Tropical S/R charts use a variety of cyclic derived charts from the S/R chart to tell them what is happening on a day-by-day basis.

It is my opinion, based on the charts that are posted or written about, that Tropical astrologers make poor use of Solar Returns and are often either vague or wrong. It is also my opinion that Sidereal or p.c.Tropical astrologers who use the S/R as a cyclic chart are often correct in what they see indicated and almost always correct in the timing of those events.

There is too much to go into in terms of concepts, technique and other stuff to make a convincing point to these conclusions. However, there are many books on differing aspects of this question, including my book, Personal Prediction. For those who are just starting to study Solar Returns, some time, reading and study is required if one wishes to learn the various methods and become skillful in their use. Dave

PS

I've been busy completing the content of my second book, Moon-to-Sun Returns. The book and the blog site, www.ninthhouse.wordpress.com have kept me occupied. I'll try to be more present on this forum. Dave

dadsnook2000 said:

I've been busy completing the content of my second book, Moon-to-Sun Returns. The book and the blog site, www.ninthhouse.wordpress.com have kept me occupied. I'll try to be more present on this forum. Dave

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Glad to here from you again Dave. I hope you'll do a few posts about those Moon to Sun returns, when time permits.

On the Solar Returns, I think there's one important point to emphasise. As Dave says, his method does not require any knowledge of transits, secondary progressions, primary directions, solar arcs or other additional forecasting method. I'm sure these could be added if it was really felt necessary but the method is stand alone.

Most early forms of Solar Return were not. Abu Ma'shar, who wrote perhaps the first explicit text on Solar Returns (ninth century AD) tied them in with other methods. So did Jean Baptiste Morin, who did more than most to keep Solar Returns at the forefront of Astrology.

I'm not sure whether they didn't spot Dave's cycle or the did not feel comfortable relying on it. However Dave's approach is quite elegant and does not exclude the use of a traditional approach, though that is not Dave's personal approach.

It's not directly a 'topical' approach either. The key test, as Dave mentioned, is angularity. That shows the most active planet on that particular day. Referencing back to the natal chart might identify the area of life which that planet most represents but I would have thought that the nature of the angular planet or planets could just as easily be used to identify the nature of the year or the day.

In that respect the method harks back to the use of quadrant houses by Hellenistic Astrologers to identify 'active' planets whereas they used a different system for topical analysis. The use of quadrant houses for both in post medieval Astrology obscures the difference of purpose in reading the chart. What is the prime consideration of reading the SR chart? Is it to determine what is most active during a year (or day) or is it to simply identify what each topic has in store? I stress 'most important' because the two are not entirely separate, and to an extent both will be considered.

Perfect, thanks for the responses.