"Fortune Telling" Cards - Lenormand etc

Recently, I ordered some packs of so-called fortune telling cards. What's interesting about them is the similarities and differences between the decks, and since I've just finished comparing 2 packs of Lenormand ones I thought I'd share.

One is US Games, the other Piatnik.

Both have 36 cards, the same symbols (all pretty pics) in the same order, and similar interpretations and instructions in the LWBs. However:

- the artist is different
- the Piatnik one has cards associated with standard playing cards, the playing card is pictured as an inset to the main picture e.g. card 1 showing a male rider is the 9 of Hearts
-the US Games one has no playing cards on it, instead it has poems in the same vein as soppy Hallmark cards (you know the sort of thing). So the Card 1 has:
'Heed well good
news
from the cavalier,
Impassioned views
promise good
cheer,
Sadness that hides
veiled in the day,
Once undisguised
soon flies away'

The US Games one claims to be an 'authentic reproductionof famous 19th century deck', but since Mlle Lenormand was French I'm thinking that the poems are probably about as authentic as ...something not very authentic (although you can get them in french allegedly). I don't have a playing card divination guide, so I've no way of telling if the Piatnik card associations are congruent with the usual meanings attributed to them.

Does anyone else have any decks labelled 'Fortune telling cards'?

I have another 3 packs (not Lenormand, but from a cursory glance some of the same symbols) and I'll get around to comparing those another day.

Here's a link to some of the US Games cards http://www.wicce.com/lenormand.jpg

I found this site but it is in French, shows there are lots of versions of the deck http://homeusers.brutele.be/magicka/Tarots/Lenormand.htm

scroll down for the Piatnik ones.

Aerin

ps I found this as well http://www.serenapowers.com/lenormand.html and it mentions the Titania deck (which doesn't even credit Lenormand cards, and which I really hate)

Hi Aerin, I have the " Astro Mythological" Lenormand deck which contains 54 cards. The deck is published by Grimaud in France. i just received this deck a few days ago (purchased used from E-bay Canada), and haven't had time to really read all the information etc. From what I have read in the accompanying booklet it looks quite complicated. The cards have no writing on them and they do correspond to the standard playing card deck. Each card has the number and suit in the top left corner, then an astrological chart and a letter. Below that row there is a large coloured drawing of what the card represents. Below that there are three other small drawings always with a flower in the middle, different flower for every card. The instruction booklet does not explain things very well and I think I will have a very frustrating time with these cards.

oops forgot to mention, I have the Russian Gypsy Fortune Telling Cards by Svetlana Alexandrivna Touchkoff. I love these cards, although I have never read often enough with them to be able to read them without the guidebook. Pictures are nice and system is simple.

Lenormand cards

Aerin said:

Recently, I ordered some packs of so-called fortune telling cards. What's interesting about them is the similarities and differences between the decks, and since I've just finished comparing 2 packs of Lenormand ones I thought I'd share.

One is US Games, the other Piatnik.

Both have 36 cards, the same symbols (all pretty pics) in the same order, and similar interpretations and instructions in the LWBs. However:

- the artist is different
- the Piatnik one has cards associated with standard playing cards, the playing card is pictured as an inset to the main picture e.g. card 1 showing a male rider is the 9 of Hearts
-the US Games one has no playing cards on it, instead it has poems in the same vein as soppy Hallmark cards (you know the sort of thing). So the Card 1 has:
'Heed well good
news
from the cavalier,
Impassioned views
promise good
cheer,
Sadness that hides
veiled in the day,
Once undisguised
soon flies away'

The US Games one claims to be an 'authentic reproductionof famous 19th century deck', but since Mlle Lenormand was French I'm thinking that the poems are probably about as authentic as ...something not very authentic (although you can get them in french allegedly). I don't have a playing card divination guide, so I've no way of telling if the Piatnik card associations are congruent with the usual meanings attributed to them.

Click to expand...

Hi Aerin ... Various publishers repeat the two versions of Petit Lenormand decks that you've noted. A _third_ version on the Petit (or 'small') Lenormand is the Grimaud Petit Lenormand. I don't know which one of the 3 versions (or whether in fact it was a different version altogether) was the first Petit Lenormand.

Each of the 36 Grimaud Petit Lenormand cards contains, in the bottom three-quarters of the card, the 4 pictures from the corresponding 54-card (52 plus male consultant plus female consultant) Grand Lenormand card in the bottom. In the top quarter of the card is a playing card, plus 3 different boxes of divinatory meanings, plus a title of the card. The 9 of Hearts is titled 1. Le Cavalier/The Cavalier. None of the four Grand Lenormand images in the Petit's 9 of Hearts card is a male rider. The four images on the card are:

(1) Central figure: Hercules battling the Nemean Lion (the lion in the forest of Nemea).

(2) A mayor crowning a 'rosière' (According to my Robert & Collins French-English dictionary, a rosière was a village maiden publicly rewarded for her chastity. The card shows the mayor bestowing a crown of flowers (presumably, roses) on the maiden. Humourously, the word apparently now means an 'innocent maiden'.

(3) bouquets: Lilac (recompense); Arum lily (immortal simplicity). Synthesis: Gratified feelings.

(4) Napoleon decorates a military man (grenadier) with a cross. Bravery, Rewarded Merit, Honours.

Bibliography: Carole Sédillot & Chantal Frelaut: _Une aventure mythologique: Le Grand Jeu de Mlle Lenormand_, (Éditions Dervy, 2000)

Aerin: It's funny that you're talking about these cards, as I was thinking just yesterday of starting up a thread, because I need a guinea-pig or two in order to try out two different spreads using these Lenormand cards. One of them was explained to me only two days ago and it sounds so interesting. Perhaps you would like to be a guinea-pig?

I have three sets of Lenormand cards. One is called The Small Lenormand (published by Grimaud), which has various pictures on it, depicting scenes from mythology, standard playing cards, plus three different pictures on the bottom, as well as different interpretations written on them. It is very hard to read with these cards. I have a couple of books, but I just can't make head or tale of them.

Then there is the Jeu Lenormand with the poems on them, which I believe to be the one that is closest to the original Lenormand cards. I have it in French, and I think that one can really safely say that this one is pretty authentic.

Then there is the Piatnik one which I think is wonderful, but the trouble is, on the "Clouds" card, they have inversed the sunny side and the cloudy side, which I find a great pity because I believe it is not how the original card was designed, and it changes how one interprets the cards according to their position.

But the basic meanings of the cards are the same in both of these decks. I can't tell you anything about the first deck (the complicated deck), but I hope one day, when I'm retired for instance, I will have time to follow a seminar on these. There are people in Europe who give courses on the Lenormand decks. Fortune telling is still quite popular here.

My gypsy fortune teller used to use these cards in conjunction with Tarot cards (she doesn't read anymore, unfortunately, I think mainly due to old age and the tiredness that it accompanies). She really trusted these cards implicitly and I trusted her, so I believe that if one knows how to read them, they can be a very accurate way of telling one's fortune.

The French are very proud of Mlle Lenormand, and rightly I think. She did a lot to bring fortune telling out of the closet and she read for many high-ranking people in the aristocracy at the time. (She died in Paris in the mid nineteen-eighties.)

Grand Lenormand

Ruby7 said:

Hi Aerin, I have the " Astro Mythological" Lenormand deck which contains 54 cards. The deck is published by Grimaud in France. i just received this deck a few days ago (purchased used from E-bay Canada), and haven't had time to really read all the information etc. From what I have read in the accompanying booklet it looks quite complicated. The cards have no writing on them and they do correspond to the standard playing card deck. Each card has the number and suit in the top left corner, then an astrological chart and a letter. Below that row there is a large coloured drawing of what the card represents. Below that there are three other small drawings always with a flower in the middle, different flower for every card. The instruction booklet does not explain things very well and I think I will have a very frustrating time with these cards.

Click to expand...

Hi Ruby ... The Sédillot/Frelaut book (see my post above), penned in French, contains amazing one-stop information and assistance on the various schools of symbolism in the Grand Lenormand. Fortunately, I was able to get a pristine new copy of this book at a remainders bookstore in Montreal for $14 CDN but, unfortunately, it retails for $42 CDN.

Hehe: Rusty Neon and I posted at the same time. Oh and good luck with that Astro-Mythological deck, Ruby! Let us know if you ever manage to understand it.

A different verse

I also have a Petit Lenormand ("Jeu Lenormand", published by Lenormand, or at least that's what the publisher's name appears to be) containing a playing card insert, one picture in the main body of the card, a number and card title, and a verse in French. To identify which deck I'm speaking of, it's the deck with the description "Cartes de bonne aventure d'après la méthode si exacte de Mlle Lenormand". It has a red box, and "Jeu Lenormand" is written in yellow type and a Queen of Diamonds and an 8 of Spades are depicted on the front of the box. Product number on the bottom flap of the deck is 33.648. On the back of the box is the 6 of Hearts card.

The French verse for card 1 Cavalier (9 of Hearts) reads as follows:

Ce cavalier trottant
Apporte apparemment
Bonne nouvelles ...,
mais
Vient-il de loin, de près?

This French version is a bit different from the English verse quoted by Aerin above.

This French verse roughly translates as follows:

This cavalier riding on horseback
Brings what is apparently good news ...,
but
Does he come from afar, or from near?

Rusty Neon: Goodness, I hadn't noticed that the English poem was so different to the French one. How can anyone do decent Lenormand readings with such rubbishy translations.

It's the second time that I have noticed that US Games has translated stuff so badly! Their Wirth cards, for instance, are sometimes quite shocking - when you read Wirth's books and he talks about the colours he uses (for example), and you look at their deck, you wonder if they even bothered to read the damn book. (Yes, I'm getting a bit het up here. Historical stuff should be respected, especially when one has the original in front of us!) But of course, the original designers are all dead, so why should they care if they respect their work or not? No-one's going to sue them.

More than one French verse?

Hi Diana ... The English verse of Aerin's deck is so different in content from the French verse of my deck that I am thinking that it's not a case of bad translation and that perhaps the English verse of her deck is a translation of a _different_ French verse.