Horary chart - help needed

Ronia

She cast another one, asking "Will I meet a desired partner by the end of this year", meaning again not simply meeting but initiating something meaningful. If you have the time, I'll be glad to explore this one, I'll try myself here as an exercise. The chart: https://picasaweb.google.com/simplyaven/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCL2t3tyrhJLUigE#5667349053418931010 cast at 11:40 am in Sofia, Bulgaria.

Now, following Minderwiz, I look at the Ascendant which is not too early or late. Then I think the Moon is not void of course, correct me if I'm wrong?

Then the Asc is Sagittarius so she is signified by Jupiter. He is in the 5th which I think relates to her desire for love and fun, and pleasure, etc. I'm a bit confused with Jupiter's condition here... Is it right that in Taurus he is not particulalry strong? And he is retrograde... She is also more materialistic may be which is true about her in general and it seems to me the opposition to the Sun in the 10th is related to that somehow - she is herself an accomplished person and she wouldn't ignore her potential partner's material/professional state, she would take it into consideration.

Now, the Sun is the triplicity ruler and it opposes Jupiter which leaves me a bit puzzled if it's good or bad... as Jupiter is the night triplicity ruler. Does that make her stronger or weaker?

And the 7th is in Gemini which makes Mercury the significator of her eventual partner, right? Jupiter is moving towards an opposition to Mercury without changing signs BUT will there be a trine to Mars prior to that or is it passing, I can't calculate here? And how would an opposition translate? Would it matter that Mercury is in the 11th and he may want a friendship instead of love?

I looked at the essential dignities table and I can't find anything about Mercury in Scorpio around the 15th degree... But it's Jupiter's terms, right? So, Mercury is interested in her? But if Jupiter is not in Mercury's terms (it's looks like it's in Venus's) does it mean she wouldn't be that interested in whoever comes into her life by the end of this year? But it would contradict the question which refers to a "desired partner"...

I haven't checked any co-significatorsa yet because this got a bit overwhelming but please, pitch in with any ideas, I'll be glad to learn. :)

P.S. I wonder if Venus is only used for female significator? Because a lover is more like a 5th house thing, isn't it? So, could Venus signify the potential lover (male) then? As the 5th falls in Taurus?
 

Ronia

Seems like I'll continue the exercise myself. LOL I'm still trying to figure out some of the significators and the answer to her question. It looks to me the answer is "no" but then it will mean I've become a terrible Tarot reader. :D All the readings I've done for her showed a man is coming before the end of this year. I even asked another forum member to pull cards and again - there was this man. Or I don't read the chart properly. Or the chart is not good for reading... Confusing.
 

Minderwiz

Sorry, I missed your penultimate post, I was out for the day on Tuesday and quite busy yesterday. When I checked the forum briefly, you were still showing as the last post, and I wrongly assumed it was your 'OK I got it now', post. In fairness to myself, the time of the post seemed to fit that of the 'OK I got it now post'

In this chart:

Her significators are Jupiter (ruler of the first) and Venus (the female in the question)
His significators are Mercury (ruler of the seventh) and the Sun (the male in the question)

Additionally the Moon may play a role as a significator of either of the parties (though most usually the querent).

There's no aspect forming between Jupiter in Taurus and Mercury in Scorpio, as Mercury is well advanced through the sign.

There's no aspect between Sun and Venus (just as there wasn't in the previous chart cast some 36 hours earlier)

There is an aspect forming between Jupiter and Sun - they are mutually applying to an opposition. That's not good whilst it offers an outside chance, there's a lot of difficulty and Lilly says he's never seen anything successfully brought about by an opposition.

There is an aspect forming between Mercury and Venus - Mercury is applying to a conjunction with Venus.

So two of our possible 4 pairs of significators suggest no successful outcome
One pair suggests that there's a faint chance but through a lot of trouble.
The final pair suggests that the relationship will come off - and even better Venus is the triplicity ruler for Scorpio, (Dorothean triplicities) so there's reception.

The problem we now have is does this chart cast a day later really constitute a radical chart and does the evidence from it point strongly to the relationship? As a general rule it's good to leave a significant interval between asking the same question. In this case it seems a bit of a rush but the second chart is cast during the hour of the Moon, and Moon and Jupiter share rulership in the Water Triplicity and both have dignity in Cancer.

So the chart actually looks more valid than the previous one (there's no considerations before judgement).

What do we make of the testimonies of the four pairs of planets? On the first three pairs, we'd conclude nothing will come of the matter. But that Mercury/Venus conjunction with reception seems to offer a strong testimony in favour.

Overall it's not strongly in favour but there does seem to be a reasonably good chance.

My concern is the niggle, that the question is virtually the sam as the first one, with only the added clarification of the nature of the 'meeting'.

How would you treat this if it was two Tarot readings so close together on virtually the same question with one coming out against and one being probably in favour?
 

Ronia

Actually, I've pulled cards for her on the second question only! "Will she meet a desired (by her) partner by the end of this year?" This first question about a particular guy she cast the first chart on has never been part of my readings. Based on which, I assume this particular guy may not be the option but someone else might be.

I'll check your answer now thoroughly, thank you very much for helping me to learn! Which is the main reason why I posted this chart too, I want to learn how to see the answer and what to look for! :)

P.S. Oh, if you knew how many times I've asked the cards the same question regarding my own issues! LOL They do answer though. With different cards. I guess they think I can't get it and keep telling me the same using different pictures. :D
 

Ronia

I'll apppreciate if someone is willing to help a bit with this one: https://picasaweb.google.com/simplyaven/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCL2t3tyrhJLUigE#5671853858150993522

My questions are: I take Saturn as the ruler of the querent as Saturn was the ruler of Aquarius in traditional astrology, am I correct? Also, is the Ascendant too late here? I also notice the Moon is void of course but I read Lily said the Moon was favourable when in Pisces, should I read the chart in this case or not?

On the question: is A (woman) going to start a relationship with B (man). Is the Moon a significator of A as well or is it Venus or both? Saturn (A) is moving towards a conjunction with the Sun (B, male) but Jupiter is opposite Sun, do we take the conjunction as clear here or is the opposition of Jupiter messing up? The 7th is in Leo which again makes B signified by the Sun and again I don't know if the opposition of Jupiter here will come first but I think it will and then it probably brings a "no" answer, right?

If I take the Moon as A's significator, I still don't see a connection with the Sun anytime soon... before a conjunction with Uranus takes place. But do we consider outer planets in horary?

And Venus and Mars are square and separating, so... am I correct assuming there is nothing there either?

Thanks for the help!
 

Minderwiz

My questions are: I take Saturn as the ruler of the querent as Saturn was the ruler of Aquarius in traditional astrology, am I correct? Also, is the Ascendant too late here? I also notice the Moon is void of course but I read Lily said the Moon was favourable when in Pisces, should I read the chart in this case or not?

On the question: is A (woman) going to start a relationship with B (man). Is the Moon a significator of A as well or is it Venus or both? Saturn (A) is moving towards a conjunction with the Sun (B, male) but Jupiter is opposite Sun, do we take the conjunction as clear here or is the opposition of Jupiter messing up? The 7th is in Leo which again makes B signified by the Sun and again I don't know if the opposition of Jupiter here will come first but I think it will and then it probably brings a "no" answer, right?


If I take the Moon as A's significator, I still don't see a connection with the Sun anytime soon... before a conjunction with Uranus takes place. But do we consider outer planets in horary?

And Venus and Mars are square and separating, so... am I correct assuming there is nothing there either?

Thanks for the help!
Firstly I only take it to be a late degree if the Ascendant has passed 27 degrees, that is not the case here - so on that particular consideration the chart is acceptable.

Yes Lilly says the Moon 'performs somewhat' when in Cancer (rulership) Taurus (exaltation) or in Pisces or Sagittarius (ruled by Jupiter the greater benefic) To what extent 'performs somewhat' means that the matter is perfected is not clear. However in this case the Moon is not Void of Course as Lilly will always allow a situation where the Moon is applying to another planet, even if perfection only occurs after the Moon has changed signs - in this case the Moon is applying to Mercury and Venus in Sagittarius.

Assuming you have given A the first house because she asked the question, then Saturn is her significator as ruler of the Aquarius, and she gets the Moon as co-significator. She also gets Venus (natural significator of woman). B gets the Sun as Lord 7. Now we would normally also give him the Sun as the natural significator of a man. In this case we can't do that, he's already got the Sun.

What you are looking at is where Saturn and Sun are in the chart.
Whether Lord 1 or the Moon applies to Lord 7
Whether Venus applies to the Sun (or Vice Versa if Venus is slow)

Lilly is happy to consider Lord 7 in the Ascendant or Lord 1 or the Moon in the seventh as evidence of a forthcoming marriage - I only do that if there's mutual reception between the significators, the reason being that these days marriages or long term releationships depend more on love than family connections and arranging marriages to enhance those connections.

Don't forget to check for translation of light and connection via antiscia - both of which can lead to perfection (Lilly treats translation of light as the couple being brought together by friends)

Lilly also says the matter will be perfected if the planet the Moon separates from applies to the planet the Moon is applying too, which is just a special case of translation of light
 

Minderwiz

The Chart has Saturn in Libra, the Fall of the Sun, in the eighth House. Now if she asked about a relationship, that suggests she's got intentions so I'd interpret this as she's vulnerable and feels her situation is weak but I'm not sure she's as keen on him as the question suggests.

The Sun is in the eighth House by the look of it, or on the cusp of the ninth. At best this suggests she sees him as being 'dreamy'

There's no major aspect forming between Sun and Saturn and no planet offers translation of light between them, though admittedly it's difficult to read some of the numbers on the small chart.

There's no application of the Moon to the Sun (both Lord 7 and natural significator of men) - BTW we don't use the outers in Horary but a late degree Pisces Moon is not going to make any major aspect to the Sun in Pisces or in Aries and will not hit one till it reaches the opposition in Taurns - which of itself would suggest no perfection of the matter.

Venus is not applying to any major aspect with the Sun.

So it seems that things are unlikely to work out in terms of any long term relationship in the near future.
 

Ronia

OK, thank you, I'll go back now and try to apply all I'm learning , so I can see what's happening there. I always miss this or that, it's just so much info. But I'm trying to not forget and I'm making a list of things to check in a chart. :)