II La Papesse

My eccentric theory about the Papess is that she was originally the allegorical figure of Faith. (The Star was perhaps originally Hope; but where did Charity go? The Lovers?)

This link has an image of Vermeer's seventeenth century allegorical painting of Faith. Like the Papess, she is musing over a book. In Vermeer's painting she is standing on a globe, which is reminiscent of the image of the World in some old decks:

http://www.mystudios.com/vermeer/33/vermeer-allegory-of-faith.html

Breughel did an allegory of Hope, but it's difficult to relate his image to any of the trumps.

http://www.afaweb.org/education/bruegel4.asp

I have to second catboxer's theories depicting the Papesse as the Guglielma Visconti but the mentioning of Jonas and the whale brought Pope Joan to my mind (leave the "s" in Jonas and switch the letters and voilà: Joan - B/W the "s" brought then the image of a snake to my mind and this lead to the snake goddess).

What I found striking in my Visconti Sforza deck is the direct look of the Papesse at the spectator, she looks calmly at you, sure of herself and of her right to wear the Tiara and to sit on the throne, and there we are again at the Great Mother Goddesses who had not have to avoid male eyes or cast her eyes down.

Catlin:

New deck? I think I remember reading somewhere that you just got it. Is it the Lo Scarabeo 1997 gold edition?

Ihcoyc:

Welcome aboard. It's always nice to see new people with something to offer. And I have to say, your theory is not in the least eccentric.

Since I just spent about an hour typing a long, detailed post responding to what you said here, and since it was sabotaged by a lost connection, courtesy of the inimitable AOL, I'll keep this brief.

The study of the Cary-Yale deck is complicated and interesting because nobody knows how many trumps there were in total. Stuart Kaplan believes that Faith, Hope, and Charity took the places that were later supplied in subsequent decks by the Pope, the Star, and the Papesse (Encyclopedia: II, p. 36), and his comments on this topic are worth reading. The Cary-Yale was most likely the earliest pack we can point to and definitely say, "Yeah, that's a tarot," although it seems to have been a prototype whose contents were significantly altered as the standard tarot contents were subsequently established.

Certainly, the seven virtues, four cardinal and three theological, were a major component of the cultural baggage of Renaissance Italy, and all seven appear in the Florentine Minchiate, which also contains a Hanged Man and Hermit but no Pope, Papesse, or Star. These are all cards which have been associated with one or another of the virtues.

The Cary-Yale deck, its contents and omissions, and its significance in the development of true tarot, really should be the subject of a separate thread.

Yes, catboxer, I got the Visconti-Sforza gold edition by LoScarabeo. Of course I have only cast a first look at this deck but our discussions make me itch to take out the deck + the pages of Kaplan's Encyclopedia to look trough concerning "my" Visconti deck.

Wherever I go these days on my researches, I see that people think that the Popess depicts Mary Magdalene, who some consider to have been the first spiritual leader (Pope) of the Church (not Peter).

It does make an awful lot of sense to me, but I will be doing more research on this when I have time (by the way, who stole my time? I don't seem to have much these days.)

Until then, I would dearly love to hear your views on this theory.

This indeed would be an interesting area to add further study to.

For myself, I do think that the iconography is far more reminiscent of the Anunciation to Mary the mother of Jesus, and the traditional view of viewing the Papess as virginal adds to this...

On the other hand, any symbol will have, of necessity, multiple layers - and even the Marys are somewhat overlaid with what appears to be blended characteristics. As spiritual leader (and wife?), the Magdelene certainly fits the picture!

…Just thinking, (hanging out in the history section does that)…

What if, La Papesse, is a metaphor for the “Black Madonna”.

One does have to examine the prevalence of the Black Madonna cults, the number of Cathedrals erected (was not Chartes one?) in her honor…this could also be the Isis tie in…and be an indication of why the book is closed…

Further...why she sits before the Empress and the Emperor, or the Hierophant himself...

Umbrae: This is most interesting. What makes me a little bit sceptical here is that the Tarot never depicts the Papesse as having a dark complexion. The Black Madonna is always black. Of course, the Tarot creators may have had their reasons - and they had to hide many of their meanings in cryptic messages.

The Black Madonna was probably Sarah. (Who is also, interestingly enough, the patron saint of the gypsies.) For the moment, and contrary to jmd, I still believe that the Popess is Mary Magdalene.

The Camoin deck shows the Papesse as having a very very white face. Not flesh-coloured, but white as a sheet. I would be most intrigued as to know why this is so. As if by giving her such a white face, they are trying to tell us something. What? I think I will try and contact Philippe Camoin and ask him. I know he travels a lot, but I'll see what I can do.

Jodo-Camoin TdM Papesse

Diana said:

The Camoin deck shows the Papesse as having a very very white face. Not flesh-coloured, but white as a sheet. I would be most intrigued as to know why this is so. As if by giving her such a white face, they are trying to tell us something. What? I think I will try and contact Philippe Camoin and ask him. I now he travels a lot, but I'll see what I can do.

Click to expand...

Perhaps the 'eggshell white' face of the Jodo-Camoin Papesse has something to do with the egg that Jodo-Camoin 'added' (or brought out) in the background of the Papesse card during the 'restoration' of the deck.

Okay, what's with the egg? Can we have a refresher course?
I just noticed that. It's not even got a snake wrapped around it. And I just noticed, Diana, now that you pointed it out, that her face and hands are all white. So is this supposed to be a tie in with the moon?