Flavio
Is nice to see how the thread is developing, 4 suits had been covered already and some blood metaphores (cold blood, blue blood) had come up, this reminds me of lineage and sentences like "my blood" instead of "my family"
Wands = Blood?
Fulgour
Sanguine
When I was in University there was a professor
who loved to discover all the meaninings of...
Sanguine, adj.
1. Cheerful, confident and full of hope.
Thesaurus: enthusiastic, optimistic, hopeful, assured,
spirited, unabashed, animated, ardent, cheerful, buoyant;
Antonym: cynical, pessimistic.
2. Said of a complexion: ruddy or flushed.
Thesaurus: flushed, pink, red, rosy, rubicund, ruddy, florid;
Antonym: pale, sallow.
sanguine, noun
1. A blood-red colour.
2. A red chalk containing iron oxide, used for drawing.
Derivative: sanguinely, adverb & sanguineness, noun
Word History: The similarity in form between sanguine, "cheerfully optimistic," and sanguinary, "bloodthirsty," may prompt one to wonder how they have come to have such different meanings.
The explanation lies in medieval physiology with its notion of the four humors or bodily fluids (blood, bile, phlegm, and black bile). The relative proportions of these fluids was thought to determine a person's temperament. If blood was the predominant humor, one had a ruddy face and a disposition marked by courage, hope, and a readiness to fall in love. Such a temperament was called sanguine, the Middle English ancestor of our word sanguine.
The source of the Middle English word was Old French sanguin, itself from Latin sanguineus. Both the Old French and Latin words meant "bloody," "blood-colored," Old French sanguin having the sense "sanguine in temperament" as well. Latin sanguineus was in turn derived from sanguis, "blood," just as English sanguinary is.
The English adjective sanguine, first recorded in Middle English before 1350, continues to refer to the cheerfulness and optimism that accompanied a sanguine temperament but no longer has any direct reference to medieval physiology.
Etymology: from Latin sanguineus, from sanguis: BLOOD
Gleaned from "The Free Dictionary"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sanguine
*
I have sometimes noticed how the FOUR HUMOURS
can be easily related to the FOUR TAROT SUITS.
When I was in University there was a professor
who loved to discover all the meaninings of...
Sanguine, adj.
1. Cheerful, confident and full of hope.
Thesaurus: enthusiastic, optimistic, hopeful, assured,
spirited, unabashed, animated, ardent, cheerful, buoyant;
Antonym: cynical, pessimistic.
2. Said of a complexion: ruddy or flushed.
Thesaurus: flushed, pink, red, rosy, rubicund, ruddy, florid;
Antonym: pale, sallow.
sanguine, noun
1. A blood-red colour.
2. A red chalk containing iron oxide, used for drawing.
Derivative: sanguinely, adverb & sanguineness, noun
Word History: The similarity in form between sanguine, "cheerfully optimistic," and sanguinary, "bloodthirsty," may prompt one to wonder how they have come to have such different meanings.
The explanation lies in medieval physiology with its notion of the four humors or bodily fluids (blood, bile, phlegm, and black bile). The relative proportions of these fluids was thought to determine a person's temperament. If blood was the predominant humor, one had a ruddy face and a disposition marked by courage, hope, and a readiness to fall in love. Such a temperament was called sanguine, the Middle English ancestor of our word sanguine.
The source of the Middle English word was Old French sanguin, itself from Latin sanguineus. Both the Old French and Latin words meant "bloody," "blood-colored," Old French sanguin having the sense "sanguine in temperament" as well. Latin sanguineus was in turn derived from sanguis, "blood," just as English sanguinary is.
The English adjective sanguine, first recorded in Middle English before 1350, continues to refer to the cheerfulness and optimism that accompanied a sanguine temperament but no longer has any direct reference to medieval physiology.
Etymology: from Latin sanguineus, from sanguis: BLOOD
Gleaned from "The Free Dictionary"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sanguine
*
I have sometimes noticed how the FOUR HUMOURS
can be easily related to the FOUR TAROT SUITS.
Dave's Angel
I've never considered this question, but picking up on the very last words about relating the suits to the humours, I did a quick run through in my head, and matched them as follows -
PHLEGMATIC - slow and steady, rarely ruffled - Earth - Pentacles.
MELANCHOLIC - given to introspection and perhaps melodrama, overly emotional therefore - Water - Cups.
Then things got a bit trickier.
At first I thought -
SANGUINE - confident, pumped-up, full of action and verve - Fire - Wands.
therefore
CHOLERIC - angry, attacking, restless - matching both the obvious violent connotations of Swords and also the whirling characteristics of Air.
But then I thought, No,
Angry, attacking and restless qualities sound more like "pure will unassuaged of purpose" - act first, think later tendencies, thinking with your fists. Surely that's more Fire and hence Wands, which I've always thought of as being dirty great rustic cudgels rather than anything refined like a sceptre of authority. At the same time Air / Swords have a precise, intellectual quality that matches a confident and "sanguine" manner more.
So for the same reasons I'm wobbling between placing blood with Fire / Wands or with Air / Swords.
Perhaps we're getting down now, for those with nodding acquaintance with western magickal traditions, to the debate on whether Swords in fact belongs to Fire and Wands to Air?
PHLEGMATIC - slow and steady, rarely ruffled - Earth - Pentacles.
MELANCHOLIC - given to introspection and perhaps melodrama, overly emotional therefore - Water - Cups.
Then things got a bit trickier.
At first I thought -
SANGUINE - confident, pumped-up, full of action and verve - Fire - Wands.
therefore
CHOLERIC - angry, attacking, restless - matching both the obvious violent connotations of Swords and also the whirling characteristics of Air.
But then I thought, No,
Angry, attacking and restless qualities sound more like "pure will unassuaged of purpose" - act first, think later tendencies, thinking with your fists. Surely that's more Fire and hence Wands, which I've always thought of as being dirty great rustic cudgels rather than anything refined like a sceptre of authority. At the same time Air / Swords have a precise, intellectual quality that matches a confident and "sanguine" manner more.
So for the same reasons I'm wobbling between placing blood with Fire / Wands or with Air / Swords.
Perhaps we're getting down now, for those with nodding acquaintance with western magickal traditions, to the debate on whether Swords in fact belongs to Fire and Wands to Air?
Fulgour
some considerations
Choleric in medieval physiology could mean either
of two bodily humours: Black Bile or Yellow Bile.
And it is an imbalance in the 4 Humours that would
cause a disturbance, so all were essentially good.
Imagine someone gone daffy with sweetness,
kind of just as extreme as if in a raging anger.
Maybe we will attract some of the experts to help?
Likely then we'd find out we're completely wrong...
but then they might spare us, so we can have fun!
Choleric in medieval physiology could mean either
of two bodily humours: Black Bile or Yellow Bile.
And it is an imbalance in the 4 Humours that would
cause a disturbance, so all were essentially good.
Imagine someone gone daffy with sweetness,
kind of just as extreme as if in a raging anger.
Maybe we will attract some of the experts to help?
Likely then we'd find out we're completely wrong...
but then they might spare us, so we can have fun!
Rosanne
Dave's Angel said:
hehe Fire in the Blood! Interestingly, though I see Swords as Air and Wands as Fire- it has occured to me that steel is tempered by fire to make it strong, and trees or wood grow upwards into air- Cups are made from the Earth to hold liquid(clay,wood, metal). Not to mention the act of flipping a coin.The four humours can have blood sayings attached to each of them that are somewhat interchangable. Take the rousing(Wands), emotional(Cups), revolutionary(Swords) Landgrabbing (Coins) Prussian speech cry for war Blut und Eisen!- Blood and Iron - makes ones blood run Cold neh? Heard it again lately in the Middle East. ~Rosanne
sharpchick
Rosanne said:
I like those analogies, Rosanne.
star-lover
Helvetica said:
i was going to post this without reading the whole thread, then did and would agree
SunChariot
I say Cups. As cups contain liquid, and blood is a liquid. But more importantly because blood comes from your heart, just as you emotions do.
You could also say blood is often related to pain, and pain can be an emotion as well. And even when talking about physical pain that is often related to the emotions too such as a fear of pain.
Bar
You could also say blood is often related to pain, and pain can be an emotion as well. And even when talking about physical pain that is often related to the emotions too such as a fear of pain.
Bar
SunChariot
Fulgour said:
For what it's worth, the current French word for blood is still "sang"
Bar
Phoenix Rising
I would say that blood is cups..and it is the Mauri or life force of blood which would come under "wands"
Pentacles is earth or physical..totally different from water...blood is the water of the body...like our rivers and oceans are the blood of Papatuanuku..earth mother. It is also the tears of Ranginui the sky father who shed's it's tears caused by the separation of his wife..the Earth mother.
So Wands and pentacles...nope sorry don't have my agreement on that..and swords well that's pretty obvious.
Pentacles is earth or physical..totally different from water...blood is the water of the body...like our rivers and oceans are the blood of Papatuanuku..earth mother. It is also the tears of Ranginui the sky father who shed's it's tears caused by the separation of his wife..the Earth mother.
So Wands and pentacles...nope sorry don't have my agreement on that..and swords well that's pretty obvious.
