Well, that's the thing isn't it? One card can mean vastly different things depending on the type of feelings, the kind of relationship, the position it's in. The 2 of Pentacles is going to mean something different in the future position for a dating-type relationship than it is going to mean for the present in a marriage, which is again different from advice for how to move a relationship forward, and yet another meaning for how a potential love interest sees you.
Pentacles can be a physical manifestation of the feelings. A brief run down for me:
Ace of Pentacles - feeling like you have a real shot at someone, will have an opportunity to be physically close, see someone as real relationship material. Start of building someone solid, not fleeting
Two of Pentacles - as Griz beautifully described, this can mean meeting someone, being in their physical presence. It can mean juggling two people, trying to keep the momentum going, testing someone's interest, trying to stay on your good side. Moving your schedule around to meet a date.
Three of Pentacles - admiring someone, working with someone. Open to negotiating through issues, open to meeting someone half-way. Importance of getting along with a third party, building on the initial spark of the Ace.
Four of Pentacles - withholding feelings, shutting off, keeping your opinions to yourself, staying tight-lipped, shutting people out, not budging, being stubborn
Five of Pentacles - feeling unloved, feeling left out, feeling like you're not good enough or worthy. Sticking to someone through thick and thin
Six of Pentacles - knowing something is owed, giving only what you're prepared to give, an obligation, an imbalance, a sexual exchange, giving to someone who needs help, knowing someone will help
Seven of Pentacles - wondering if its worth it, feeling impatient, a sign that the love you have given is felt and will be reciprocated, stepping back and reconsidering
Eight of Pentacles - devotion, dedication, commitment, fascination with details about you, utterly focused. An example, running around to make sure a dinner is perfect, the restaurant is right, the parking is sorted, you've got enough money etc
Nine of Pentacles - admiring a beautiful and independent woman, someone not threatened by your independence and success, someone who is happy to be on their own, someone who is self sufficient
Ten of Pentacles - building a solid family life, meeting the family, fitting in with their heritage, thinking long term, purchasing a beautiful home, impact of family's legacy
Page of Pentacles - being fascinated by someone in a new way, noticing someone for the first time, admiring someone's beauty, wanting more physical closeness, outwardly demonstrating interest
Knight of Pentacles - shyness, being humble, slow to move, slow to approach, feeling perhaps that they're not good enough, devoted, committed, slow to get to know you, slow to open up
Queen of Pentacles - the secure woman, the stable woman, earthy sexiness, sensible, practical, the "other" woman, the wife, runs the home, not necessarily exciting or stands out but dependable. The type of woman that you feel wouldn't reject you
King of Pentacles - Committed man, family man, manages money, cares about finances, home man, settled, happy, a bit boring but dependable. Wants to take care of you
I don't think the point was "great" cards - just that they are not necessarily bad cards. The Sun card in a relationship spread can be "burn-out" - it all depends on the question, position meaning, situation and other cards.I'd be curious, at this point, to know which cards would be considered "lukwarm" by those who claim that the 2, 8 or most of the pents, really, are great cards to get in a love reading-
Whichever position it comes up in, it is certainly not the dream card for a romantic relationship, in my view..sure, there are worse cards, with the 2 of pents, at least he is considering the idea...I'd be curious, at this point, to know which cards would be considered "lukwarm" by those who claim that the 2, 8 or most of the pents, really, are great cards to get in a love reading- and I meant lukwarm, not awful ten of swords like
I don't think the point was "great" cards - just that they are not necessarily bad cards. The Sun card in a relationship spread can be "burn-out" - it all depends on the question, position meaning, situation and other cards.
The 4 or 8 of Cups can be "lukewarm" cards, for instance (actually the 8 can be a little worse than lukewarm).
I don't think the point was "great" cards - just that they are not necessarily bad cards. The Sun card in a relationship spread can be "burn-out" - it all depends on the question, position meaning, situation and other cards.
The 4 or 8 of Cups can be "lukewarm" cards, for instance (actually the 8 can be a little worse than lukewarm).
yeah, I don't usually see the cards from the numerological perspective at all, as I think that according to the suit, each 7, or 8, or whatever number carries a completely different shade of meaning...the 5s are definitely a disaster, all of them, but the 7 and 8 are very different from one another, althoug granted, none of them talk about a great love affair...even just the eights, the wands and pentacles are extreme opposites...I mean the wands 8 is about rushing in in an upsurge of passion, while the pents 8, at is very best, is about pedantic planning of every smallest details.....(although personally, I really can't see it as someone suggested, planning a romantic dinner, from the red roses to the restaurant and the money for the car park....well yes, the bit about making sure he has enough coins for the car park during a romantic dinner does sound like an eight of pents/virgo, come to think of it)Very good question to ask. In the qabalistic model, almost all of the 7's and 8's - and to a lesser extent the 5's - are "blah" (or luke-warm) at best because they're "unbalanced." The 2's, 3's and 4's are also unbalanced but are a little more positive because they're closer to the Root of the elemental energy (although the 4's are starting to degrade). I generally view the 5, 7 and 8 cards as potentially problematic in some way at first and look for reasons why they might be redeemed, rather than the other way around. So I consider the 8's better than the 7's because slightly more refined, but not by much, and the disruptive 5's are primarily valuable as a liberating corrective for the stagnation of the 4's. It's an "energy model" as opposed to a pictorial, narrative one. In the model, the Aces, 6's and 9's fare better because they're centered on the Tree of Life and are directly aligned with the supernal Source. The Aces are at the apex of the Tree and the 6's and 9's directly below embody the illumination of the Sun and Moon, respectively. The 10's (representing the element of Earth) are at the bottom of the heap and don't come off all that well due to the near-exhaustion of the elemental power, but at least they reflect balanced force. There is really not much in this model that isn't in a state of flux (kind of like human life). The Thoth deck captures these nuances perfectly.
It is precisely because of these differences that I prefer to read cards WITH a client rather than for them. I find that each person's unique response to a card to be at the heart of what is going on in their lives.Jesus, now I can se why the pents would be great cards for feelings in your book !!! Which deck do you use, anyway ??? Clearly not one where the guy is walking away, bent down on his walking stick, turning his back on the cups and leaving, in an apocalyptic, dark scenery....? It's one of the worste cards in the deck, in my view !!!
To me the Sun is almost never a good card. Especially in relationships.
Being lost and feeling abandoned is beginning to describe what the 8 of pents means in my readings...it's the strongest card for disappointment and disillusionment over something or someone we used to care about a lot, and in which we had invested everything. It's the realization that our hopes and efforts were misplaced, probably from the start, although we couldn't see it before. It's a dream being shattered, and for the first time, being seen for what it was all along : a dream.It is precisely because of these differences that I prefer to read cards WITH a client rather than for them. I find that each person's unique response to a card to be at the heart of what is going on in their lives.
While the cards will work according to my intent as the reader it's so much less interesting for me to impose my perspectives on a person than to discover theirs. Some people are really drawn to the Knight of Pentacles and others find him a complete bore. Some find that their father has the temperment of the Queen of Cups and their mother is really the King of Wands.
I've never seen the 8 of Cups as apocalyptic, but for someone with the Sun and Moon in the 12th house and Scorpio rising it is probably not surprising that I find this card very comforting. Still, I've seen it described with such a range of meanings and emotions that I'm not surprised that you see it as terrible. To me it ranges from being lost and feeling abandoned to a soulful search for deeper meaning - a kind of calling. I will meditate on the apocalyptic, now that you mention it.
The cards can stand in as a set of personal hieroglyphics and triggers, or they can codify the perspective of a group - like the Golden Dawn, or they can be alive in the moment, shifting and turning as each person and situation is reflected upon them - or some combination of all of these. Aren't the cards wonderful!
I don't remember what I said in that context. Yes, there are times when I deliberately don't strip someone's delusions away in a fifteen-minute or hour reading, as I think that can be more damaging and hurtful than helpful. It doesn't have to involve lying; it can simply mean not brow-beating.But I also remember your implied statement to the effect that self-delusion is a positive thing, in a way. I find that thought truly disturbing. We shouldn't try to sugar-coat the truth for clients, and above all, we shouldn't lie to them to give them temporary relief from their pain. And making things sound better than they are, to me equals lying. Very dangerous indeed.
