Have you figured a certain card out as timing?

Hi, Forum.

Recently I'm trying to figure tarot cards out as timing. But always it's not too clear. I've seen some threads which are about tarot time frames. But in this thread, I'd like to talk about more individual experiences.

In my case, I've got the ace/swords in time position, and that event happened very that day. Just 1~2 hours later.

(I asked when can I see someone again, then just 1~2 hours later I got a text from him and we met that night.)



And I also have got the magician in same position, and that event happened few days later. I thought the magician said to me 'it's coming!'

(I asked when can I get a new job, then few days later I passed interview. But I started to work a couple of weeks later. The magician was reversed.)


And yesterday, I got the 2/wands rx in time position. I was a bit confused about it. I don't think it would happen 2 days later or 2 months later. So I drew one more card to clear the meaning, and it was upright Empress. I'm still thinking of it. It could mean 9 months later (you know why. She might be pregnant and it will take about 9 months), or Spring (Season of new lives!). But I'm still not so sure about it, so I'm just keep thinking about tarot and timing.


That's why I'd like to share our experience. Perhaps most of us have had asked 'when...?' type of questions. So please tell me, what experiences do you have? It would be helpful to everyone!



Dan.

Hi dancingufo, actually it hasn't never occured to me or at least, not yet maybe.. so what I try to do instead is to look at the story of the card.

For example if you ask "when will I find love?" and you get, let's say, the Ace of Swords, I don't think it may point to hours or weeks (I see Swords as weeks) or the now, but maybe something like "First you need to change your way of thinking".

Or let's say that for the same question you get The Lovers, we know its zodiacal sign is Gemini (tell me if I remember wrong ), so the querant would find love in a time frame from the 22nd May to the 21st June, but what if the card was instead saying something more like "When love will come, you will feel it, you will recognize it"?

Just some ideas, but I may be wrong

I've experimented with ways to take the interpretive "squishiness" out of it. Independent of the elemental factor (Wands = Days, Swords = Weeks, Cups = Months and Pentacles = Years, adjusted for the nature of the question), I've been seeing lower-numbered minor cards as "sooner" and higher-numbered cards as "later." Among the court cards, the throned Kings are the most "deliberate" and the youthful Pages are the most "light-footed," while the armored, warhorse-mounted Knights are quicker than the Queens but take longer to get moving than the unencumbered Pages; in this model, the Page of Wands would be quickest and the King of Pentacles would be slowest. (For this purpose, I ignore the whole "Fire of Fire," "Fire of Water," etc concept, and also Crowley's rejiggering of the system.) The Trumps are a mixed bag; I don't take the easy way out and say "You won't know until you deal with what the card is trying to tell you," I try to make a cut at it based on the nature of the card and its place within the context of the spread. The Tower in the near-future position would be saying "You better duck!" while in the outcome position you have time to put your hard-hat on. The elemental and astrological associations help here too. The Magician is Mercury, the most rapid of the "planets" after the Moon, while the World is Saturn, the slowest of the traditional seven. The Fool kind of sits outside the sequence and just says "Whenever!" Not everything in life follows a rigid timetable.

elena_jaymz said:

Hi dancingufo, actually it hasn't never occured to me or at least, not yet maybe.. so what I try to do instead is to look at the story of the card.

For example if you ask "when will I find love?" and you get, let's say, the Ace of Swords, I don't think it may point to hours or weeks (I see Swords as weeks) or the now, but maybe something like "First you need to change your way of thinking".

Or let's say that for the same question you get The Lovers, we know its zodiacal sign is Gemini (tell me if I remember wrong ), so the querant would find love in a time frame from the 22nd May to the 21st June, but what if the card was instead saying something more like "When love will come, you will feel it, you will recognize it"?

Just some ideas, but I may be wrong

Click to expand...

I've also looked at the Golden Dawn's "seasonal" attributions, but - like trying to make sense out of elemental "years" in most situations - I found them to be useless in many if not all "real world" contexts. For example, if the question asked in February "When will I hear about my recent job application?" getting the Devil and its association with Capricorn (approximately December 22 - January 19) would be the same as saying "Never!" But, of course, the Devil himself - with what exoterically resembles a "Halt!" gesture in the RWS version - is probably saying "Don't hold your breath!" anyway.

Elena, that makes two of us that "may be wrong!"

In my personal cosmology, the concepts of pre-ordination and pre-destination conflict with the principles of free will and election. While many processes and occurrences in life are indeed set by precondition and predictable outcome--such as don't pay your mortgage, you will be evicted. There is a precise timeline for when that will happen. Same as your light bill, or poor performance at work. Same as someones competence or incompetence for initiating and sustaining social relationships...

As you note, the role and actions of the social actor is what determines the majority of outcomes for our lives. A question such as "When will I find love" is completely contingent upon how, when, and were one puts themselves out there to meet a potential mate--and their motivation to make that happen. Indeed, simply going to the grocery store one day may randomly achieve that result--it happens thousands of times every day. But one has to be receptive to the opportunity--and emotionally prepared to engage the other person. These things are behavioral and cognitive--not some inescapable process and fate that is set in some supranatural plan that can be revealed through divination. Many will soundly disagree with me, and that's OK. It's quite likely that a substantial majority of 'seekers' and a similar number of Divination practitioners believe the same. This sort of thing is at the core of many major religions theosophies, and we are not here to argue someone's faith.

I don't 'read' other peoples cards--although I have been begged. At the end of the day, much of the result is preparing a 'seeker' (aka social actor) to consider and make adjustments to their beliefs and actions about something--and manifest some action in their own right. If I wanted to go to that level of 'counseling' I would renew my state board certifications, hang out a shingle, and bill the patient's insurance company for the professional mental health service...

Given the OP's reference to getting a job, consider carefully the fact that they had already engaged an action by submitting an application. In that, they had obviously cast themselves as someone qualified for the position--and of interest to the HR hiring manager. Or the matter of reaching out to someone and getting a response.

Over a very broad survey entailing 40+ years of observation, I have noted that the very best 'psychics' and 'spiritual advisors' have been primarily successful based upon their ability to read the 'individual' and gauge the likelihood of certain outcomes based upon their probable deportment and actions--as well as a sound knowledge of how various social processes unfold and the ability to define what 'normal' timeline expectations are for outcomes given the presentation of the individual before them.

YMMV...

Papa Tango said:

At the end of the day, much of the result is preparing a 'seeker' (aka social actor) to consider and make adjustments to their beliefs and actions about something--and manifest some action in their own right.

Over a very broad survey entailing 40+ years of observation, I have noted that the very best 'psychics' and 'spiritual advisors' have been primarily successful based upon their ability to read the 'individual' and gauge the likelihood of certain outcomes based upon their probable deportment and actions--as well as a sound knowledge of how various social processes unfold and the ability to define what 'normal' timeline expectations are for outcomes given the presentation of the individual before them.

Click to expand...

Going on 45 years for me, most of it spent exploring different ways to get "under the skin" of objective reality without resorting to psychism, religious claptrap or psychoactive drugs (well, not much ), and the first statement above is how I've come to view the value that tarot can provide to the "seeker." In that light, it can be empowering.

The first part of the second statement sounds very much like the modern definition of "cold reading," intended to be a derogatory and dismissive term for the act of ostensibly reading the cards while actually resorting to visual clues. (Back when I started, it simply meant reading with no prior knowledge or impressions of any kind.) The second part of that statement works the same way for tarot timing; social processes and normal expectations for the unfolding of common events over time need to be factored in. It has to pass the "giggle test." Telling someone that an outcome they're actively pursuing is going to take "10 years" based on the 10 of Pentacles is ludicrous (unless the answer really is "never"). That's where a "sliding scale" should be introduced. I'm a relentless tinkerer with these things, so I'll probably keep on plugging away just for my own amusement.

Hm.. some unique incidents that stand out to me:

Tower came up and struck me as "Tuesday" and it just so happened that the following Tuesday was the day my sitter was to make a 'break-out' television debut.

Star was, "Saturday, like you were promised." Sitter: "Woah! They did promise me Saturday!" (Can't recall the confirmation of this.)

Ace of Pentacles was, "You got engaged a year ago?" - Sitter: "Yeah!"

Queen of Wands + 2 of Wands = "He's going to propose in two weeks." (Confirmed.)

Knight of Cups = "He's got a surprise for you this weekend." (Another engagement confirmed for that weekend.)

Any card has the potential for timing, and these do not follow my 'standard' method of timing. Just be open to getting whatever, like you were with the Ace of Swords.

BINGO! Congratulations, Barleywine! You win an all expenses paid trip to your refrigerator for a tasty midnight snack!

My first wife (I was about 22) was such a 'cold reader psychic.' She made a nice side income off peddling 'divination', arbitrary crystals, and aromatherapy. She was the master of the 'tell' and our conversations about this were very frank. Most of what she 'interpreted' from the cards was built upon tells and reveals--the result of very innocuous sounding short questions. It took me two years to completely understand that she was not a psychic, but properly a psychotic. Needless to say, we divorced and that is another story and learning experience...

For me, I find that the Tarot provides a vehicle and space to look deeply into myself--motivations, thoughts, actions, and how I respond to conditioning emanating from life experiences. The symbology of the images for most of the "classic" decks comes from archetypal human experience (a collective body of typological function). I do not tortously endeavor to weave James or Jung into this--although moving to the deeper level these semiotic representations can be very useful. In my estimation, much more can be assigned at the primary and functional levels to Maslow's hierarchy of development and need.

If we think about what we are seeing in a spread, and couch it in this context--for me it avails an opportunity to evaluate and consider changes in thought and approach that has revealed what self-imposed limitations or constraint I have placed on something. An opportunity to examine prior experience and discover how whatever lesson might have been learned is empowering or limiting in a present situation. No surprise, without a methodology to focus such thinking--whether Tarot or a psychologist--many people cannot accomplish it on sheer 'dwelling' or fixation on the process. Without an aid of some sort--this often simply becomes just another exercise in unwarranted justification and continuance of playing "inside the box."

Papa Tango said:

BINGO! Congratulations, Barleywine! You win an all expenses paid trip to your refrigerator for a tasty midnight snack!

My first wife (I was about 22) was such a 'cold reader psychic.' She made a nice side income off peddling 'divination', arbitrary crystals, and aromatherapy. She was the master of the 'tell' and our conversations about this were very frank. Most of what she 'interpreted' from the cards was built upon tells and reveals--the result of very innocuous sounding short questions. It took me two years to completely understand that she was not a psychic, but properly a psychotic. Needless to say, we divorced and that is another story and learning experience...

For me, I find that the Tarot provides a vehicle and space to look deeply into myself--motivations, thoughts, actions, and how I respond to conditioning emanating from life experiences. The symbology of the images for most of the "classic" decks comes from archetypal human experience (a collective body of typological function). I do not tortously endeavor to weave James or Jung into this--although moving to the deeper level these semiotic representations can be very useful. In my estimation, much more can be assigned at the primary and functional levels to Maslow's hierarchy of development and need.

If we think about what we are seeing in a spread, and couch it in this context--for me it avails an opportunity to evaluate and consider changes in thought and approach that has revealed what self-imposed limitations or constraint I have placed on something. An opportunity to examine prior experience and discover how whatever lesson might have been learned is empowering or limiting in a present situation. No surprise, without a methodology to focus such thinking--whether Tarot or a psychologist--many people cannot accomplish it on sheer 'dwelling' or fixation on the process. Without an aid of some sort--this often simply becomes just another exercise in unwarranted justification and continuance of playing "inside the box."

Click to expand...

This is what tarot (and astrology to an even greater extent) was to me for the better part of four decades, although both were appended to my broader qabalistic studies (the hermetic kind, not the rabbinical). But I'm a writer and story-teller at heart, so I really enjoy the outlet that reading for others affords. I suppose that's a selfish reason, but it has an honorable goal: to provide insights that might otherwise be elusive to the seeker. Since I have the thoroughly anecdotal notion that tarot operates by "subconscious induction" and not by divine intervention or magical (aka "psychic") revelation of some sort, I must have the querent actively engaged in the process to make it a dialogue on several levels of consciousness, not simply a monologue crafted from my own fanciful imagination. But I do see both sides of the picture: on one side there is what Hamlet said to Horatio, on the other side, what David Hannum said about P.T. Barnum's gullible customers.

And as best illustrated by a common Venn Diagram, the truth lies somewhere in the points of intersection...