Homeless Queens and Kings

Ruby Jewel

I've not really touched a Tarot deck in anger for well over ten years. So my Tarot knowledge is sketchy. But my feelings have always been that Astrological correspondences with Tarot cards can only be taken so far - and even Sharla's list, which is probably the best one, goes a little too far. Otherwise you end up pushing the correspondences to a point where they break the spirit of Astrology or Tarot or both.




There are at least two confusions here.; Firstly you conflate signs and houses. There's no such thing in Astrology as a cardinal house or a fixed house or even a mutable house. Houses are Angular, succedent and cadent. Only Signs are Cardinal (Aries, Cancer, Libra, Capricorn), Fixed (Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius) or Mutable (Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, Pisces). This property of the signs comes from the seasonal variations caused by Earth's rotation around the Sun. The Cardinal signs correspond to the two equninoxes (March and September) and the two solstices (June and December).

The houses are the product of Earth's diurnal movement (its revolution on its axis) which leads to the periods of day and night. The angular houses corresponding to Sunrise, astronomic noon, Sunset, and astronomic midnight. These four points are trisected to produce twelve houses, but these houses are not signs (though through a period of 24 hours, the houses will pass through each sign.

Now what you are describing appears to only deal with signs, and houses are not covered (as they are in Sharla's system).

You link Queens with Cardinal Signs, and then go on to say that these all have
a watery nature. Now you might see Queens as essentially watery but Aries is firy, Libra is airy and Capricorn is earthy. Only Cancer is watery. So you are creating a correspondence which bends the rules of Astrology.



As far as I caqn remember, there are only four queens, Wands, Swords, Pentacles/Coins and Cups - where do the other eight come from in your system?

Sharla's list seems to confirm my memory, as she only has four Queens.

Now if you are going to use all the court cards, from Page to King, then there are 16 Court cards and only twelve Signs, something has to go. the obvious step is to drop the page, and keep to Knight, Queen and Kin. But in order to make things fit, you are creating an artificial cut off between Page and Knight.



I fully accept that you put this scheme forward as no more than a possibility. So below I'm simply pointing out that forcing correspondences creates real problems

Firstly Jupiter isn't a watery planet. That it rules Pisces is nothing to do with its essential nature. It's a derivation from the Thema Munda - the birth chart of the universe, which seems to have a major influence on rulerships and exaltations. Incidentally Mars rules a Fire sign - Aries - so why do you restrict it to Water? There is an Astrological explanation in that Mars is a nocturnal planet and Water and Earth are nocturnal triplicities. So Mars' rulership of Scorpio wins out - yet historically Mars is a firy planet, the hotest after the Sun. So making it Watery bends the nature of the planet somewhat. Jupiter is airy, the most Sanguine of the planets. Astrology does not award rulerships on the basis of affinity.

I don't think that it's possible to get a complete set of correspondences, not should it be. Tarot and Astrology are different forms of divination. trying to force them together is not a good idea. If anything, Astrology would have influenced Tarot, as it was in full swing in the forteenth Century when Tarot burst onto the European scene but 'influence' is not the same as 'correspondence.'

Even Sharla's system has a problem. making for example the eight sign to have the same meaning as the eighth house (something which you will find in modern Astrology) fails to reflect the indepence of Sign and House. The eigth house will be occupied by every sign during twenty four hours, taking a 'snapshot' for an event, e.g. birth, at one moment, could stop the clock in any one of the twelve signs. If you have Leo in your eighth, it doesn't suddenly take on a Scorpio overlay. It's still Leo from the tip of it's nose to the end of it's tail. If you want to use houses, then I suggest a spread which mimics and astrological chart, with twelve 'clock' placements to represent the twelve house and to which cards can be assigned, through dealing from a shuffled pack, so there's no necessary link between house and planet/sign.

If you are going to use correspondences, do so with great care, remember that the two systems are different but there may be some associations that you can make. That doesn't allow you to redefine either Astrology or Tarot, but it might, just might, give you an insight into one or the other method of divination.

Edited to correct mistake of Leo in your twelfth to Leo in your eighth

Hi minderwiz. My goodness, this is quite in-depth and shows a lot of knowledge of astrology. I didn't put this scheme together myself, and I'm not even sure how common the knowledge is, but it is a system accepted by some, if not several people here. I studied astrology for a few years ago. Guess I'm a little rusty on some of the terminology, but I can still put a chart together. I find astrology and tarot fit together rather nicely with the exception of the above few signs that are left out of a house as there aren't enough houses to go around. I'm just wondering how others who use this system deal with it. Thanks again.
 

Sharla

In the real world there are Sagittarius and Leo women and my question is regarding whether they go in the 9th house with the mutable Sagittarius Knight, or in the 1st house with the cardinal queens.

In the real world yes...obviously if the sun was in one of these signs then this person would take on these attributes.....BUT were not taliking about real people here are we, signs/houses/cards etc are only energys.

The king's, Queens, knights all get there own sign and house ....its only the pages who have to share.
 

Ruby Jewel

In the real world yes...obviously if the sun was in one of these signs then this person would take on these attributes.....BUT were not taliking about real people here are we, signs/houses/cards etc are only energys.

The king's, Queens, knights all get there own sign and house ....its only the pages who have to share.

Hi Sharla. Actually the Pages don't get a house....as they say, Pages don't own property.

I'm thinking of real people here as well as energies. For instance, if I get a Sagittarius woman as a client, is her energy going to be that of an Aries Queen, or that of the Sagittarius Knight. Looking at my Sagittarius friend, I would have to say she is more of a Sagittarius Knight than she is a Queen...I think I have decided to put the extras into the house of their sign and guna (c/f/m) For instance, I would put a Sag woman into the mutable fire house with the Knight, and the Leo woman into the fixed house with the Leo King....the tarot doesn't differentiate between male and female, so that makes more sense to me. So, looks like the cardinal queens get their own castle all by themselves....(laugh)...thanks for your interest here....