Victoria's Finest
I don't see a way to sub to this thread without posting so, uh, a post 
. Thanks for such a fantastic discussion all, really enjoying it .
. Thanks for such a fantastic discussion all, really enjoying it .
The Lovers or 2 of cups?
tarot_quest
Just to add, the key difference here between 2/Cups and Lovers, I think, is how much information comes with the connection. For example...and I hope this metaphor isn't too odd...
2/Cups is rather like seeing a cake (let's imagine a small, individual-sized layer cake) covered in delicious frosting (I'm instantly drawn to chocolate, myself). This connection grabs your attention and gets you interested; and it's certainly "love at first sight." But readers have to be careful not to read it as: "Here is your soulmate," (i.e perfect cake) because while the attraction of the "frosting" is significant, it's not the whole cake. What if you don't like the actual cake under that frosting. If it's problematic enough (something about the person you can't get past), then it might be a deal-breaker. You put aside the cake. Of course, even if the actual cake isn't the flavor you expected, it might be to your liking. In that case, you'll continue on. Maybe you'll find you don't like the filling between the layers, but decide that you can work around it, and that this relationship is still for you. In short, 2/Cups offers a wonderfully strong start, but you really have to learn more before you can say that this relationship is a done deal.
With the Lovers, you see the cake with a slice missing; all the layers are exposed and you know exactly what you're going to get. Which is why readers often omit "romance" from the Lovers, because an important part of romance is the thrill of discovering each other. Of course, that's also the downside of romance: with each new layer, you have to decide if this cake is still for you. With the Lovers, that's not an issue; as with Gemini, the twins, you know this person/thing's problem and flaws as you know yourself. You aren't going to suddenly discover something about them that you didn't know and which is a deal breaker. So, with this connection, the delicious layers of the cake, all perfectly to your taste, are seen and outweigh the parts that are not to your taste, making it well worth having. A done deal. This is why the Lovers has more weight as a "connection" than the 2/Cups, and why the 2/Cups is considered more romantic than the Lovers. I think.
Did that make sense?
I really like it! I feel that I am getting more clarity on these cards with your examples
Last question. You refer to ''soul mate'' with the Lovers Card... In your view, can two people be soul mate for a certain period and than go to another soul mate, or is there only one soul mate for us, related to the Lovers card?
Differently said, can a person receive the Lovers card when asking the connection that he/she feels with someone for multiple people (but not necessarily at the same time)?
Thanks!
Thirteen
Warning: Rant
Rant ahead. Be prepared:
[rant]I use the word "soul mate" because it's used a lot here, and it's a way of getting the point across. But I really don't like it for exactly the reason you mention. It suggests that there is one perfect person for us in the world and only one. And that somehow fate will bring the two together. Which leads a lot of reader to think that the tarot exists only to tell them when he/she is on the horizon so they can get on their best outfit and fix their hair in anticipation of his/her arrival. Which will be followed by a dream wedding and happily ever after
I know stories of men/women who never re-marry after their wife/husband passes are incredibly romantic, as are tales of young lovers who die together rather than being parted, yadda, yadda, yadda. It tugs at our heartstrings like tales of faithful dogs who never get over their masters. But, once again, I think we'd all prefer these stories to be in our fiction rather than in our real lives. I mean, it used to be, in some parts of world that widowed women were buried with their dead husbands. Is that *really* what we want women to think? That they're buried with their husbands if their husbands die? Doomed to loneliness or taking their lives because that one person was their only soul-mate and there is no other for them? And once the soul-mate is gone they, alone, have no value?
That's not romantic to me. That's horrible. Also untrue and unfair to women (yes, there are men who buy into the soul-mate meme, but most are women. Men are taught they have value outside of relationships, as independent individuals. Women are still taught they only have value if they are in a relationship). And what makes it worse, is that a lot of women will meet men (and men will meet women), and if they're not "perfect" as they presume a soul-mate must be, they say, "He/she's not my soul-mate." The idea of a soul-mate not only creates this future of loneliness and lack of self-worth if not found (or if soul mate passes away), but also creates impossible expectations in relationships that few can meet.
In short, no, I do no believe there is only one soul-mate for each of us; I believe there are many people in this world of billions that we can love. And I believe that there are different types of soul-mates for each of us to find, and that the universe wants us to look of them, not wait for them like a princess in a tower. I also believe that all such soul-mates are flawed, and even the best relationships will require work, willingness to adapt and change, willingness to forgive, grow and learn. And I firmly believe that most of the time, our "soul mates" reveal themselves little by little, rather than appearing magically. I don't think "love-at-first-sight" is impossible, but I think that if we expect/want that, we will cheat ourselves out of true love, time and again. Because we won't give the love of our life a chance to be revealed at twenty-fifth-sight; we'll walk away from them when we don't fall in love at first sight. That's not romantic. That's just sad.[/rant]
Heh. Warning: you've hit a rant button
Rant ahead. Be prepared: [rant]I use the word "soul mate" because it's used a lot here, and it's a way of getting the point across. But I really don't like it for exactly the reason you mention. It suggests that there is one perfect person for us in the world and only one. And that somehow fate will bring the two together. Which leads a lot of reader to think that the tarot exists only to tell them when he/she is on the horizon so they can get on their best outfit and fix their hair in anticipation of his/her arrival. Which will be followed by a dream wedding and happily ever after
I know stories of men/women who never re-marry after their wife/husband passes are incredibly romantic, as are tales of young lovers who die together rather than being parted, yadda, yadda, yadda. It tugs at our heartstrings like tales of faithful dogs who never get over their masters. But, once again, I think we'd all prefer these stories to be in our fiction rather than in our real lives. I mean, it used to be, in some parts of world that widowed women were buried with their dead husbands. Is that *really* what we want women to think? That they're buried with their husbands if their husbands die? Doomed to loneliness or taking their lives because that one person was their only soul-mate and there is no other for them? And once the soul-mate is gone they, alone, have no value?
That's not romantic to me. That's horrible. Also untrue and unfair to women (yes, there are men who buy into the soul-mate meme, but most are women. Men are taught they have value outside of relationships, as independent individuals. Women are still taught they only have value if they are in a relationship). And what makes it worse, is that a lot of women will meet men (and men will meet women), and if they're not "perfect" as they presume a soul-mate must be, they say, "He/she's not my soul-mate." The idea of a soul-mate not only creates this future of loneliness and lack of self-worth if not found (or if soul mate passes away), but also creates impossible expectations in relationships that few can meet.
In short, no, I do no believe there is only one soul-mate for each of us; I believe there are many people in this world of billions that we can love. And I believe that there are different types of soul-mates for each of us to find, and that the universe wants us to look of them, not wait for them like a princess in a tower. I also believe that all such soul-mates are flawed, and even the best relationships will require work, willingness to adapt and change, willingness to forgive, grow and learn. And I firmly believe that most of the time, our "soul mates" reveal themselves little by little, rather than appearing magically. I don't think "love-at-first-sight" is impossible, but I think that if we expect/want that, we will cheat ourselves out of true love, time and again. Because we won't give the love of our life a chance to be revealed at twenty-fifth-sight; we'll walk away from them when we don't fall in love at first sight. That's not romantic. That's just sad.[/rant]
Emma313
Hi jr, crspace and thirteen
My idea was that the two of cups canbe very perfect and satisfying for a couple whereas the lovers for me is more of an existential angst type card with real hard thoughts and decisions, life changing,and alot of the time no decisions happen, cos they are too scary, ie go with lover leave wife or husband, so left after limbo into no mans land...pretty depressing
Id rather have memories of beautiful times than shit times
Sorry folks
Im a pinky romantic libra but with a modicum of good sense.....cant be dealing with all the real scorpio deep crap, sorry......
But i do have a question her about "lurve"
When you keep thnking of another for years and years later, and songs reminds you of your tme together, whats the point!? Romantic dribble?
My idea was that the two of cups canbe very perfect and satisfying for a couple whereas the lovers for me is more of an existential angst type card with real hard thoughts and decisions, life changing,and alot of the time no decisions happen, cos they are too scary, ie go with lover leave wife or husband, so left after limbo into no mans land...pretty depressing
Id rather have memories of beautiful times than shit times
Sorry folks
Im a pinky romantic libra but with a modicum of good sense.....cant be dealing with all the real scorpio deep crap, sorry......
But i do have a question her about "lurve"
When you keep thnking of another for years and years later, and songs reminds you of your tme together, whats the point!? Romantic dribble?
tarot_quest
Heh. Warning: you've hit a rant button
Ha ha ha!
Thanks a lot for developing your idea! Sadly, it's true that some women feel valuable only when in a relationship...
This topic is quite cool, I will have to stop asking questions
Emma313
Ha ha ha!
Thanks a lot for developing your idea! Sadly, it's true that some women feel valuable only when in a relationship...
This topic is quite cool, I will have to stop asking questions
Id argue against that as many woman feel like total shit within a relationship not valuable at all to themselves or others, its called male abuse
Thirteen
Well, that's the 6/Cups, right? Nostalgia, to some extent, but also "known joy." I don't think it's any more pointless than casting our minds back to happy moments in childhood, or the times we spend with friends during our teen years ("Remember that one evening we drove around town till dawn, talking and listening to music? That was the best!").
I mean, happy memories are happy memories; when we're not feeling so good, they can make us smile and feel better. That doesn't seem pointless to me. Nor counterproductive unless (1) they end up making you feel sad and miserable because you're not with that person any more, or (2), unless you are comparing a current relationship to this old one; there's no way any current relationship is going to live up to memories you've polished and elevated.
I guess what I'm saying is, so long as this old relationship doesn't become an unhealthy obsession—either to hurt yourself or hurt another—then such sweet memories are like any other sweet memories. Their point is to make you smile and give you joy when you most need it—and to remind you that you have been loved and can be loved. That's a very important point, don't you think?
Jrr94
I don't see a way to sub to this thread without posting so, uh, a post
Haha, I second that! A big thank you to everyone putting in their two cents. This is all very interesting
ndark68
tarot_quest said:
Perfect Thirteen!! I love it, and I completely agree.Heh. Warning: you've hit a rant button
[rant]I use the word "soul mate" because it's used a lot here, and it's a way of getting the point across. But I really don't like it for exactly the reason you mention. It suggests that there is one perfect person for us in the world and only one. And that somehow fate will bring the two together. Which leads a lot of reader to think that the tarot exists only to tell them when he/she is on the horizon so they can get on their best outfit and fix their hair in anticipation of his/her arrival. Which will be followed by a dream wedding and happily ever after[emoji14]
I know stories of men/women who never re-marry after their wife/husband passes are incredibly romantic, as are tales of young lovers who die together rather than being parted, yadda, yadda, yadda. It tugs at our heartstrings like tales of faithful dogs who never get over their masters. But, once again, I think we'd all prefer these stories to be in our fiction rather than in our real lives. I mean, it used to be, in some parts of world that widowed women were buried with their dead husbands. Is that *really* what we want women to think? That they're buried with their husbands if their husbands die? Doomed to loneliness or taking their lives because that one person was their only soul-mate and there is no other for them? And once the soul-mate is gone they, alone, have no value?
That's not romantic to me. That's horrible. Also untrue and unfair to women (yes, there are men who buy into the soul-mate meme, but most are women. Men are taught they have value outside of relationships, as independent individuals. Women are still taught they only have value if they are in a relationship). And what makes it worse, is that a lot of women will meet men (and men will meet women), and if they're not "perfect" as they presume a soul-mate must be, they say, "He/she's not my soul-mate." The idea of a soul-mate not only creates this future of loneliness and lack of self-worth if not found (or if soul mate passes away), but also creates impossible expectations in relationships that few can meet.
In short, no, I do no believe there is only one soul-mate for each of us; I believe there are many people in this world of billions that we can love. And I believe that there are different types of soul-mates for each of us to find, and that the universe wants us to look of them, not wait for them like a princess in a tower. I also believe that all such soul-mates are flawed, and even the best relationships will require work, willingness to adapt and change, willingness to forgive, grow and learn. And I firmly believe that most of the time, our "soul mates" reveal themselves little by little, rather than appearing magically. I don't think "love-at-first-sight" is impossible, but I think that if we expect/want that, we will cheat ourselves out of true love, time and again. Because we won't give the love of our life a chance to be revealed at twenty-fifth-sight; we'll walk away from them when we don't fall in love at first sight. That's not romantic. That's just sad.[/rant]
Puffette
Yes Lovers tends to sound positive regarding relationships and in terms of feelings and attraction but the 2 of cups to me meant a more stable connection in general(they look at each other cups) while the lovers in the picture show two people being naked apart of each other(multiple choices and more openess).
Lovers is a card about choices: " i chose to date you because u have a nice hair or u smell good and i felt attracted" but what if tomorrow this person gets to meet another female that has more attractive traits,he chooses that one too no?
2 of cups is about permanent encounters(its number two),it shows stability,equality,reciprocity. "I feel for you and you feel for me and so we have only us together as a whole".
The only card that for me means that two people are tied of each other and crazily in love is the devil card. Period.
