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Chart Reading: Step #1, Martha Stewart.

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gloria  gloria is offline
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Minderwiz, you say the Moon disposits everything else other than Sun, Mars and Pluto.

For the benefit of myself and other beginners could you explain this more fully.
Many thanks. G.


Hi there Moongold, no I haven't seen or heard of Babette's Feast, you'll have to point me in the direction of. Nice to speak after so long. G.
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gloria  gloria is offline
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Quote:
I realise the Moon isn't a planet,
Oh dear, did I really say this?


Anyway Minderwiz, I have fathomed out why Moon disposits all but Sun, Pluto and Mars. But as I said, I think you are going to have to spell some things out for beginners like myself. Cheers.
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Moongold  Moongold is offline
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Hey..........where do the cakes come from??? Was Martha to cakes like the Colonel is to KFC?

There is a bit of disparity about elements as well and as ...er...that is elementary..... perhaps it would be helpful to discuss. I've got Sun, Mercury, Mars and Pluto in Fire; Jupiter in water; Moon and Venus in Earth and Satur, Neptune and Uranus in Water. It's my software package allocation.

She was a successful business woman. I reckon the drive could come from Mars in Aries. Aries are natural leaders and Mars has that real go-get-em stuff. Mars happens to be the ruler of Aries too, which would make it doubly powerful. Sun is in Leo, too, which would increase the energy and power of Martha's personality.

Martha's 2nd House Moon would also make her wise to public opinions and needs, surely a good quality for business person to have. Jumping right ahead here, if this chart is a bucket with Moon at the handle, I wonder whether Moon would have been at the root cause of Marth's ultimate undoing. Having to deal with Moon issues all the time ain't fun.

This is fun, however. I didn't think we would get into the analysis so quickly.
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gloria  gloria is offline
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Moongold, I have here Neptune and Venus in Virgo, Mercury in Cancer, Jupiter in Gemini, Uranus and Saturn in Taurus and the Moon in Sag.

I don't know much about M.S, but I think likening her and her cakes to the Colonel and KFC pretty much sums it up.
Gloria.
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Gloria,

Dispositorship is another word for rulership - except that it can operate at one or more stages removed. The ancient Astrologers likened the signs to houses (there is evidence that they used a system of whole sign houses). If we take the Moon it rules Cancer. In MS' chart Mercury is in Cancer so we could envisage Mercury as owing rent to the Moon and having to do what the Moon says whilst he's there.

Mercury in turn rules Gemini, in which dwells Jupiter so Jupiter has to do what Mercury says. Mercury also rules Virgo, in which dwells Venus and Neptune, so they to owe Mercury and through Mercury the Moon.

Venus rules Taurus, wherein dwells Saturn and Uranus, so they in turn owe Venus, who owes Mercury who owes the Moon. We have a Dispositorship chain, involving seven planets.

The Moon is actually in Sagittarius so now the chain becomes somewhat complicated. The Moon owes Jupiter but Jupiter owes Mercury who owes the Moon, who owes Jupiter who owes Mercury!!!!!!!

The only ones who can sort this complex are actually the Moon and Mercury, so I have to amend my first comments and acknowledge that Mercury too must be given some additional weight in the final consideration.

The Sun is in Leo, which it rules itself and as Pluto is also in Leo it is a tenant of the Sun.

Mars is in Aries, there are no other planets in Aries, nor are there any in Scorpio so Mars disposits no other planet. He can't be ignored however because not only is he free of obligations to the rest he also rules the Ascendant.

This is a very anthropomorphic way of looking at the rulerships but in more modern terms it means that Mars energy is very strong and there will be an effort required to integrate it into the rest of the energy complex (along with solar energy). This integratation is likely to come through the aspects Mars and the Sun make with the other planets.

We thus have two ways of binding planets - dispositorships and aspects - both have roles to play in interpretation.
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Buckets & Shapes


I'd like to offer my views on chart shapes.

Martha Stewart's chart is a BUCKET shape; the Moon being the handle or "focus" (because it is apart from the rest of the planets) and Mars being the cutting edge of the bucket (the bucket's edge scoops up the contents of ones experiences as it rises over the ASC degree). The Bucket shape is said to direct much of its collective energy through the handle -- the Moon in this case. Oppositions (if any) relate to the handle planet and the planets at the two ends of the bowl (if they are 180 degrees apart). Otherwise squares have to carry challenges.

The BOWL shape is similar to the Bucket, but lacks the handle as a focus. It's primary "shaping" force is the leading edge. If M.S.'s chart were a bowl shape, the leading edge would be Mars. The bowl shape collects life's experiences and tends to hold them within the self. The bowl chart needs substitutes for oppositional aspects and may have to rely solely upon square aspects.

We can have a FAN and/or a WEDGE shape -- modifications of the Bowl and Bucket. Both have a tighter arc that covers all of the planets, perhaps 120 degrees or less. In the case of a FAN shape, the focus planet may make several oppositional aspects. But, sometimes a FAN (and even a Bowl) does not make any true oppositions -- in which case the power of that shape is diluted. The WEDGE shape packs all of the planets into a tight arc which can signify a lack of wide experience or perspective and a Pluto-like intensity and involvement in one area of life.

We can have a SPLAY pattern in which the planets are grouped into two or three splokes or zones. This may not lend itself to oppositions and squares in many cases, taking away many of the challenges needed to bring personal growth. There are often conflicting focus points. Personal integration and balance may be hard to come by.

In many cases we have the SCATTER pattern wherein the chart shows a scattering of planets about the zodiac. There is greater potential for a balanced life here if the combination of strengths and weaknesses can be integrated through experience and effort.

The shapes ultimately reflect in a general way the likelihood of oppositional, square and trine aspect patterns. Aspects link the planets into complexes which can be triggered from any of their several points and prompt us to meet challenges and find solutions. This is the essence of living. Bucket shapes have one primary oppositional tool to do this; Bowl shapes often have to find substitutes for this; Fans and Wedges may or may not have oppositional aspects to trigger us; Splay shapes are hard to judge in a general way; Scatter patterns can offer us a number of different aspect patterns to live with.

EDIT: There is also a SEE-SAW shape which consists of two groups on opposite sides of the chart. This pattern may not be perfectly balanced -- it can even be two tight groupings without a classical oppositional aspect between planets from one group to the other group. But, generally, it does have oppositions and conjunctions -- and often no trines and few sextiles. Just picture the personality that might start to evolve from this pattern. Dave.
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Moongold  Moongold is offline
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Minderwiz,

Dispositorships are power relationships. Do aspects have that same power relationship or are they more like ships passing in the night, linked by energy fields?
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Aspects between planets are two way - say a trine between Venus and Mercury is made and received by both planets. Thus there is a blending or sharing of energies.

Some Aspects are over and done with in hours - those made by the Moon, some last for months - between two outer planets.

However in a natal chart being a snapshot the aspects are fixed for all time. So they remain in force throughout life. They may be modified by transits and progressions but they still remain.

Although they are shared relationships it is open to discussion as to whether the two planets (or indeed other planets involved in an aspect pattern) are equal partners.

Traditional Astrology would look at the essential and accidental dignities of the planets to assess relative strength. So it may be an unequal partnership, even within aspects. This assessment is perhaps not taken as rigidly in modern Astrology, though there is still a recognition of some esssential dignity.
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isthmus nekoi  isthmus nekoi is offline
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ah ha! I leave for a weekend and look at what I miss out on lol....

Moongold, to answer your question........ since we are not considering signs yet, I will have to say when looking at *two planets* in aspect only, then I would think they are equal. But like Minderwiz says, once you add in the signs/houses, you start to see which planets are stronger.

Emphasis in fire/earth speaks of a steady smouldering hearth rather than one of those 'brightest flames burn out fastest' sort of deals. The mind is practical and active, although not particularily analytical. This is someone who prefers to get very involved, preferably in a noticable way w/sun and moon both in fire. Martha also has a singleton in water and air. Again, neither very analytical, nor emotionally driven.
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Elements & Qualities


So, I ask, what are we to do with elemental and quality balance? Adding up "planets" (astrological bodies and sometimes angles) to see which element (Fire, Earth, Air or Water) or quality (Cardinal, Fixed, Mutable) combination is most pronounced is a method that some/many use when first looking at a chart. This process is valued by some, mostly discounted by others.

Part of the problem relates to what you count as appropriate "planets." As Minderwiz notes, you can count the "lights" as having double value. You can use or not use the ASC and MC angles and/or the Moon's North Node. You can also split a "planet's" value if it is close to a sign's cusp. In my opinion it makes little difference what approach, what combination you use. Why? The value of element/quality balance assessment lies in the "focus" it provides you when starting the actual process of finding stronger or weaker planets and aspects as a basis for building an interpretation.

For example, depending upon your chosen approach you may end up looking at element/quality balance in Martha Stewart's chart as being Fire/Mutable or Fire/Fixed -- Sag or Leo. In this particular case both the signs hold one of the "lights" (Sun and Moon) of the chart. So, one would keep in mind that a good place to start one's in-depth assessment of this chart would be considering how the Sun and Moon are integrated, how the 10th and 2nd houses (with Leo and Sag on the cusps) play a key role in Martha's chart.

Now, it doesn't stop there. Some have mentioned that there is a "lack" or weakness in some element/quality areas. Water and Air or weak, Cardinal qualities are not emphasised or balanced. Does this mean Cancer and Libra are weak. No, although there is only Mercury in one of these signs (Cancer). Once we get into this chart we may find that planetary dynamics or other factors suggest a substitute for this seeming lack -- may even over compensate and make those signs highly significant and their related planets stronger. We can already see that the Moon, ruler of Cancer, is the handle of the bucket pattern and that Venus (ruler of Libra) has some significant aspects of its own. So, its possible that the planet aspect patterns can be used to fill a void here. More on this later. Just be aware that a seeming lack in one area is often counterbalanced or compensated for in some way. That's life. Dave.
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