Chess as a factor in the origin of Tarot

Huck

I don't understand your idea.
Perhaps you could make a clear list, what's blue and what's green according your opinion.

Generally the "plinth", as you call it, has naturally the character of a "meta-communication of some content". 4 Kings + 4 Queens + the 4 big rulers are classified this way.
The "triumphal chariot with the bride" has a somewhat "raised plinth", okay.

The Magician ... ????

In another older jungle of the Michelino deck we've 12 Olympian gods (+ 4 Kings, not to forget, though not trumps), and then 4 smaller trumps with a natural center "Daphne", which is actually a resisting bride, defending her virginity, the whole somehow similar to "4 Kings + 4 Queens + the 4 big rulers + bride" in the Bembo cards.

The other 3 in Michelino dek are Amor (we see him at 6 Love), Aiolus, who stands for the trumpet and that's "Fame" (highest trump? Judgment with trumpet ?) and the ultimate "human hero", which is Hercules.

The destiny of the Magician in Tarot rules it is, that it is the "Petit", the smallest trump, but it is honored with 5 worthwhile points, when he fulfills his chances to survive in the own hand. And it is very successful, when it wins the last trick ... then it gets further rewards.

Somehow a true Hercules, an hero with a risky life.

The only not fitting place in a comparison would be, that you've a Fortuna and I would suggest the Judgment from the view on the Michelino deck.

....

... .-) ... In Alberti's theatre play the wrong hero Fortunatus finally got Fame as his bride, but the true hero gets something like Gloria.
 

Rosanne

How would think that the Bishop of Chess in France, became Fou?

Gajah (war elephant) Pil Al-Phil/Fil(Persian)
Episcopus/Comes/Calvus (Latin)
Bishop/Count/Councillor (English)
Alfil/Obispo (Spanish)
Alfiere(Italian) This means flag bearer or standard bearer
Fou in French.....???

Did it come in a roundabout way from the Latin word Loco, which means crazy to us, but means 'here' in Latin. It has a meaning in French of a low note, or at one end of the scale- depth or timbre. Or did it come about because the War Elephant was the lowest value in the Game?

~Rosanne
 

Rosanne

We posted at the same time Huck.

Ok here is my list For the Green Team of Love (It is fanciful)
Lovers Bianca's Green Glove
Empress Green Gloves
Pope Green Lining
Queen Cups Green Gloves
King Batons Green Gloves
King Swords Green Stocking (With Blue and Red, but mainly Green)
Knight Batons Green Gloves (On white Horse,no white plinth) * not a good fit.
Queen Batons Green sleeves
King of Swords Green/Red neck Jerkin (Can't see it in mini Visconti)

Blue Team of Fortune (also Fanciful)
WOF Reigning King with Donkey ears Blue Lining, Wheel on white Time.
Papesse Blue Book
Emperor Blue Lining
Chariot Blue Lining Horse blue trim
King Cups Blue Sleeves
Queen Coins Blue Dress
Queen Swords Blue trim
Magician white plinth is the Table- could have been different Table like CY mock up card, but is not.
The Magician and The King of Swords seem to be multicoloured and interchangeable Leaders.
If I was to get 16 cards of two sides these are the cards I would choose visually; mainly because of white plinths. I do understand "meta-communication of some content" or top Bosses/Leaders.
~Rosanne
 

Rosanne

See here about the Draughts and the link with Chess in Europe. It has been played with 16 (8+8 pieces on a 8x8 board)
In Europe which came first- The Game of Queens or Chess?
http://www.draughtshistory.nl/origin.htm

~Rosanne
 

Huck

Rosanne said:
How would think that the Bishop of Chess in France, became Fou?

Gajah (war elephant) Pil Al-Phil/Fil(Persian)
Episcopus/Comes/Calvus (Latin)
Bishop/Count/Councillor (English)
Alfil/Obispo (Spanish)
Alfiere(Italian) This means flag bearer or standard bearer
Fou in French.....???

Did it come in a roundabout way from the Latin word Loco, which means crazy to us, but means 'here' in Latin. It has a meaning in French of a low note, or at one end of the scale- depth or timbre. Or did it come about because the War Elephant was the lowest value in the Game?

~Rosanne

The bishop is given with great variations. Bishop is one and it seems to have been present in England. The bow-shooter might be Czechian or Bohemian. The adviser appears in Cessolis literature. The elephant (alfil) could be also interpreted to be a rook in (Southern ?) Italy. The Fou is assumed to be French, however an early German Chess variation called Courier at an 8x12-board knew 3 variations of the bishop: (1) A Courier, or Renner or Läufer (which behaved like the modern bishop in contrast to other early bishops), (2) a jester and (3) a (wise) man. This game was mentioned at early 13th century in the Wigalois (Arthurian roman), with a little detail described in early 14th and in extension given by Selenus in early 17th century. But a legend relates it to very early times and the region around Quedlinburg, which was of importance for those German emperors with the name Otto (Otto I, Otto II, Otto III), so around the year 1000. From the same time is a document of Einsiedeln, which seems to be accepted as oldest appearance of chess in European literature.

The German Empire was strong then, in contrast to a weak French kingdom. Judging it from the distribution of the documents, it might be, that chess invaded from Germany and from Spain. Otto I. was victorious against Hungarian plundering armies ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lechfeld

... with his victory some communication lines opened to Byzanz, which had the result, that a Byzantine princess Theophanu married Otto II. in 973 and brought some Greek culture towards the somewhat colder North. It seems plausible, that Byzanz had chess then and that Theophanu brought this sort of game culture with her. The development "from Spain" might have happened independently around the same time, the first document here is from c. 1008.

In the distribution from Rhitnomachia (only a little later than chess, and somehow a child of chess culture) it's clear, that it developed from "around the emperor culture" and went then from here to the Netherlands, France and England. A similar development might have taken place before in the European chess game evolution ... considering the dominant emperor position around this time, this seems logical. Then it might be, that a "jester" in the Courier game formed the later French "fou" in the chess game. But the whole "very early" Courier game has only the state of a legend.

In the Courier game the two replacement-bishops "jester" + "man" were very weak figures, one moving one step diagonal and the other one step orthogonal.

courier.gif


775px-Lucas_van_Leyden_005.jpg


This is not a chess game, this is Courier chess.
 

Huck

Rosanne said:
See here about the Draughts and the link with Chess in Europe. It has been played with 16 (8+8 pieces on a 8x8 board)
In Europe which came first- The Game of Queens or Chess?
http://www.draughtshistory.nl/origin.htm

~Rosanne

... :) ... looks a little bit optimistic in favor of draughts. The author is a well known draughts player.

It's difficult to say, what's his last stand in this question. The webpage doesn't look "recently", but archive.org knows it since 2007 ...
 

Huck

Rosanne said:
We posted at the same time Huck.

Ok here is my list For the Green Team of Love (It is fanciful)
Lovers Bianca's Green Glove
Empress Green Gloves
Pope Green Lining
Queen Cups Green Gloves
King Batons Green Gloves
King Swords Green Stocking (With Blue and Red, but mainly Green)
Knight Batons Green Gloves (On white Horse,no white plinth) * not a good fit.
Queen Batons Green sleeves
King of Swords Green/Red neck Jerkin (Can't see it in mini Visconti)

Blue Team of Fortune (also Fanciful)
WOF Reigning King with Donkey ears Blue Lining, Wheel on white Time.
Papesse Blue Book
Emperor Blue Lining
Chariot Blue Lining Horse blue trim
King Cups Blue Sleeves
Queen Coins Blue Dress
Queen Swords Blue trim
Magician white plinth is the Table- could have been different Table like CY mock up card, but is not.
The Magician and The King of Swords seem to be multicoloured and interchangeable Leaders.
If I was to get 16 cards of two sides these are the cards I would choose visually; mainly because of white plinths. I do understand "meta-communication of some content" or top Bosses/Leaders.
~Rosanne

Well, fanciful. ... .-) ... perhaps it improves with the time.

I accept, that plinths and cliffs present "meta communication with hidden content", but I've doubts with the colors. If one would compose two teams, one might take "boys against girls", or "swords + batons" against "cups and coins" or something like that.
 

Huck

Rereading the Courier rules, I've to correct myself:

WRONG: "In the Courier game the two replacement-bishops "jester" + "man" were very weak figures, one moving one step diagonal and the other one step orthogonal. "

Correct:
Jester - 1 step orthogonal
Queen - 1 step diagonal
Man - 1 step orthogonal and 1 step diagonal (so a combined Queen + Jester or in other words "he operates like a king")

Background is likely, that the position of the king at the board can't be central, if the squares have an even number. Considering his "protection", so his left side (Jester-Queen) is as strong as his right side (man).
 

Huck

Here there have been some earlier thoughts to the Chess game as origin of the Tarot game ...