Newbie question: Visconti Sforza

The Happy Squirrel

:p

I am so excited :p
 

Sherryl

The Dal Negro replacement cards of Devil and Tower is my favourite, and from what I can see in our discussion here, they are the same as USG 2nd ed, and should be the same in the Longobardica ed.

No, they are not the same. I have both decks in front of me now.

The US Games 2nd edition replacement cards are by Scapini. Psychedelic colors. The Devil has very long, sinuous horns. The two people at his feet are dressed in medieval clothing. Tower has a purple sunburst and two smallish people falling near the top.

Dal Negro replacement cards are more subdued. The Devil and the two smaller people have goat legs and feet and small horns. The Tower has two large people just about to hit the ground. I couldn't find an artist's name, but the LWB has little b/w photos of each card along with divinatory meanings. Next to the Tower and Devil entries it says Da: I Tarocchi di Stuart R. Kaplan, Mondadori. So perhaps these were loosely modeled on a US Games version.

The front page of the Dal Negro booklet says Monumenta Longobardica at the bottom center. So perhaps this is the deck that's identical to the Longobardica. I guess we'll have to wait patiently for your deck to arrive in the mail.
 

Sherryl

I've forgotten to mention one of the most unique and smallest print run versions of the V-S deck. Alice Cooper made her own copy of the deck and was persuaded to print 200 copies of it. Shortly after putting the deck up for sale on Etsy she got a new job, seems to have moved on with her life, and has put very little effort into promoting the deck.

Here's a link to a review on my blog
http://tarot-heritage.com/2013/07/17/tarot-ac-a-new-visconti-sforza-deck/#more-978
 

The Happy Squirrel

Oooooo, sweet! I like the big people tower so that is good news. I was completely on the fence about Dal Negro vs USG 2nd ed, and was getting overwhelmed by all the information for comparison. So perhaps partially I went for the Longobardica ed was because this spared me from having to choose and think further about it, ha! I was just too lazy to go searching for more really. It was there, it seemed reasonably priced, so I clicked :)

How interesting about that artist Alice Cooper! I can sympathize with her position though. Selling online can be a full time job in itself and it is hard to do it effectively when you already have a full time job.

Thanks for that tidbits Sherryl! I can't wait to report back when the deck arrives!
 

Abrac

No, they are not the same. I have both decks in front of me now.

The US Games 2nd edition replacement cards are by Scapini. Psychedelic colors. The Devil has very long, sinuous horns. The two people at his feet are dressed in medieval clothing. Tower has a purple sunburst and two smallish people falling near the top.

Sherryl, the deck you mention here is US Games' 3rd. They have three version. See here:

http://www.felicityk.info/tarot/visconti/index.html

The Dal Negro images are the same as Monumenta Longobardica and US Games 2nd, but the stock is thinner and the quality of the images isn't quite as good in my opinion.

I've been thinking about starting a thread with images that will make all this very plain. Hopefully I can get it done tomorrow.
 

The Happy Squirrel

That would be so good :) I think I wont be the only one looking forward to this :) Thanks so much Abrac!
 

Sherryl

Thanks so much, Abrac, for the link. I stand corrected - I have the US Games 3rd edition. It's interesting that three identical decks came out in 1975. I wonder which is the original? Are the other two pirated?
 

Abrac

Kaplan makes it clear in his Encyclopedia, Vol.1, that the US Games editions 1 and 2 were a collaboration between them and Grafica Gutenberg in 1975, but never says anything about the Monumenta Longobardica version (also printed by Gutenberg). It's often cited as being published in 1974 which would put it before US Games 1. But it's also cited as being published in 1975.

In Kaplan Vol.1, there are pictures of all four of the replacements used in the Monumenta Longobardica and US Games 2, but they are credited to "Collection of Grafica Gutenberg, Bergamo." This seems to suggest Gutengerg owned the images and used them when producing the Monumenta Longobardica and US Games 2. But why weren't they used for US Games 1? The line drawings in US Games 1 seem to me the strongest evidence that it came before the Monumenta Longobardica. US Games 1 was first, then the new replacement images were created and used in the Monumenta Longobardica and US Games 2. I'd like to find out more about that 1974 publication date given for the Monumenta Longobardica. That's the only thing putting a kink in my theory. :)
 

The Happy Squirrel

That is soooo interesting Abrac. Well, when mine arrived (Monumenta Longobardica, 1974) I shall definitely report back :)
 

The Happy Squirrel

It finally arrived.

Copyright Monumenta Longobardica - Bergamo, 1974.

Booklet in Italian.

In the section of the booklet where the cards are explained, the Tower and the Devil section made references to Kaplan:

"Da: I Tarocchidi Stuart R. Kaplan, Mondadori."

The Tower has the large people falling of it. And the Devil has two individuals who are almost as large as the devil on both of his sides.

Which according to this site posted kindly in our previous post

http://www.felicityk.info/tarot/visconti/index.html

is the same as the 2nd ed USG 1975, printed by Grafica Gutenberg.

The size is smaller than the Cary-Yale (1984 USG, CT, printed in Switzerland), and about the same as the spruced up version in Mary Packard's Golden Visconti-Sforza. The card stock is... I have no basis of comparison other than the 1984 USG Cary-Yale and it feels a little thinner, but I can't be sure.

The Longobardica card stock feels less smooth, more paper-y.

The back is brick red.

What I would love to know now is the comparison of card stock between Longobardica 1974 and USG 2nd ed 1975

:D

Card stock aside though, the faux old book box makes it the only deck I can put on my bookshelf along with other books :) This is a great way to store a reference deck in my opinion.