Zodiac Sign Changes

WolfyJames said:

The whole new astrology sign thing is bogus, western astrology uses tropical astrology not sidereal astrology, in other words, nothing has changed for us westerners. The whole thing only concerns those who use sidereal astrology like vedic astrology, like the Hindu use sidereal astrology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_astrology

http://freewillastrology.com/guest_astros.html

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But why aren't all astrology charts used together? Because for the longest time I wondered why none of my best friends were fire signs, they're ALL water signs even though I'm an Aries. But then I discovered Vedic astrology and realized I'm a Pisces according to them. Suddenly it made sense why I never fell in love with nor adored Leos or Sagittarius'. By Western astro, my parents are Aries and Aquarius. Vedically, they turn into Pisces and Capricorn, which astrologers say is one of the best combos ever. I think a new compatibility chart needs to be written that incorporates vedic, western, AND progressed signs.

I very much doubt that a composite chart incorporating both a Sidereal and Tropical framework is possible. You could of course request charts of both systems and then you'd have two charts.

Progressions:
Both frameworks can be 'progressed'.

Umm...... actually, astrology is all about the planets, not the zodiac signs. Unfortunately, this popular idea is due to the prevalence of Sunsign Astrology in the media. It's not 'Astrology'.


Bee

Welcome to previous posters in this thread

This thread has been transferred from Using Tarot Cards and as you will see from the thread list in Astrology we have two very similar threads already:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152131

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152177

The normal procedure would be to merge similar threads, so that you don't find yourself posting to several all on the same topic and can easily keep up with what is going on. As the thread has been moved, I think it best to let it settle in its new home first before shifting it again.

You will find more detailed explanations in those two threads but put simply:

WolfyJames is on the right lines - Western Astrologers use the Tropical Zodiac, which measures planetary positions in relation to the Vernal Equinox in the Northern Hemisphere (defined as 0 Aries). The signs are equal 30 degree segments of space measured from that point. However as this Zodiac is related to the Earth's seasons the other three quarters also form sign boundaries - 0 Cancer is the Summer Solstice (Winter Solstice in the South). 0 Libra is the Autumnal Equinox in the North (Vernal in the South) an 0 Capricorn is the Winter Solstice in the North (Summer in the South).

This Zodiac is totally unaffected by any Astronomical changes because it is a human construct and is independant of the constellations.

Incidentally, the Sidereal Zodiac used by Vedic Astrologers is also a human construct and also consists of 12 30 degree signs. The difference is that it is tied to a starting point defined in the constellation of Aries (but any other link to a constellation is approximate). The two Zodiacs were once coincident but are now separating due to a phenomenon known as precession of the equinoxes (see other threads for more details) and it is this divergence between the two which gives rise to all these 'Sensational headlines' though the divergence has been going on for ever and has been known since the second century BCE.

In practice the divergence makes no difference to either Western or Vedic Astrology, they are both self contained. It might cause something of an issue at first for those people who try both.

Ophiucus is a constellation not a sign - the Sun does pass through the constellation and so it has interest to Astronomers but it has no Astrological significance, and no relevance either to the Sidereal or Tropical Zodiacs in Astrology.

Finally there is an awful lot more to Astrology than Sun Signs, indeed the popular fixation with them often is more a hindereance than a help. To accurately assess your character/tempreament you need to know your Ascendant (sign rising at your birth), Your Moon sign and the Astrological rulers (planets) for Ascendant and Moon and preferably the position of all the other planets

Bernice said:

I very much doubt that a composite chart incorporating both a Sidereal and Tropical framework is possible. You could of course request charts of both systems and then you'd have two charts.

Bee

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Strangely enough it is possible and followers of this thread and the other two might be interested in the attached charts, cast for a few minutes ago.

Both Zodiacs shows exactly that, with one superimposed on the other, so you can see how they differ. The inner wheel is the Tropical Zodiac, the outer is the Sidereal Zodiac.

Tropical constellations shows the Tropical Zodiac (inner wheel) against the Astronomical constellations (outer wheel). You can see that the constellations are not equal size, and that the wheel has blanks where Ophiucus would fit in. It was the problem of unequal size and 'blanks areas' that led to the development of the 12 equal sized segments, which is much better for measurement.

Oddly modern Astrologers, although the use the constellations for convenience, actually position planets using a 360 degree circle. And guess where that circle starts?

Answer - the Vernal Equinox in the North!!!! Astronomers use the Tropical Zodiac for measurement but don't actually use the sign names. So a planet at 90 degrees in their terms would be in 0 Cancer in Astrological terms.

You're right Minderwiz! The double circle (or more); as when doing progressions, transits, compatability etc.

It's the 'reading', of such a chart that may present a problem (or lots more work). It would require two interpretations IF relying heavily on zodiac signs......... thinking..... Not an approach that appeals to me.


Bee

Bernice said:

Umm...... actually, astrology is all about the planets, not the zodiac signs. Unfortunately, this popular idea is due to the prevalence of Sunsign Astrology in the media. It's not 'Astrology'.


Bee

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Oh so True!! I love you Bee!!

For previous posters you might find the following thread interesting

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152243

The 'rant' is directed against Sun Sign columns - NOT against their readers, because these columns actually provide at best poor Astrology and at worst are positively misleading.

Starlight09 said:

Because for the longest time I wondered why none of my best friends were fire signs, they're ALL water signs even though I'm an Aries. But then I discovered Vedic astrology and realized I'm a Pisces according to them. Suddenly it made sense why I never fell in love with nor adored Leos or Sagittarius

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This is a near perfect example of my beef with Horoscope columns. You are led to think of yourself as an 'Aries' and end up confused because you don't fit the 'Aries' profile.

You don't need to look at Vedic Astrology (because most or all your Pisces friends are now Sun Sign Aquarians in the sidereal zodiac). What you need is to know all the other information - indeed the vast majority of Astrological information - that helps you assess your personality.

So take the opportunity and start a thread to explore yourself!

lilnurse89 said:

so, now that they added a thirteenth zodiac sign, does that change the astrology of the cards?? What do you guys think. Also, what the heck is an ophiuchus???

I guess I am no longer a Pisces, I am now an Aquarius - which you know what, does make sense for me. I am very emotional and go along with a lot of the pisces traits, but I am also a lot like an aquarius.


What do you all think?

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Of course you will remain Pisces-Sun sign, however, if you feel more that the Aquarius description feels right as well, there might be a possibility, that:
a) you have a Moon in Aquarius (your core inner need); or
b) you have a personal planet in Aquarius (Venus, or Mercury, or maybe even a stellium), or
c) you have an extreme emphasis on the 11th house (natural house of Aquarius); or
d) your Ascendant is in Aquarius; or
e) your Midheaven is in Aquarius

Starlight09 said:

But why aren't all astrology charts used together? Because for the longest time I wondered why none of my best friends were fire signs, they're ALL water signs even though I'm an Aries. But then I discovered Vedic astrology and realized I'm a Pisces according to them. Suddenly it made sense why I never fell in love with nor adored Leos or Sagittarius'. By Western astro, my parents are Aries and Aquarius. Vedically, they turn into Pisces and Capricorn, which astrologers say is one of the best combos ever. I think a new compatibility chart needs to be written that incorporates vedic, western, AND progressed signs.

Click to expand...

you do not mix vedic and western astrology together. progressions, solar arcs, solar returns, and another bunch of stuff is used everywhere. But Vedic and Western - they both have different meanings, and if you would go study these two branches, you would realize, there is more to it, than 'East' and West.

Just because you are Aries, and you attract friends with eminence of water signs can be, due to possible more options:
a) you have no Water in your chart, or
b) your Moon, or Asc, or Descendant is in Water sign; or
c) you might be an Aries-Sun, but your personal planets (Mercury, Venus) are in Pisces ( they can be only 27 (Mercury respectively) and 48 (Venus) degrees away from the Sun);or
d) you have your Moon in 12th house, 4th, or 8th house, or you have important planets (or rulers of these houses) in there;

I would like to know WHICH astrologers are stating, that Pisces and Capricorn together are the best combination????????????

wow!!!! yes, it is the best combination of course from one point of view, and that is: CAPRICORN always victimizes PISCES.

Ps; your Moon and Jupiter is in the 12th house (natural water sign, that's why your friends are mostly Water signs, as well as, the North Node is in Pisces - another indication for Water-groups attracting to you).
It's not only the sighs where the planets are, it is very-very important, which houses are in.

The signs never did change. Every few year we have these astronomers and other "debunkers" attempt to create public confusion.

Valentine Dragon said:

you do not mix vedic and western astrology together. progressions, solar arcs, solar returns, and another bunch of stuff is used everywhere. But Vedic and Western - they both have different meanings, and if you would go study these two branches, you would realize, there is more to it, than 'East' and West.

Just because you are Aries, and you attract friends with eminence of water signs can be, due to possible more options:

a) you have no Water in your chart, or
b) your Moon, or Asc, or Descendant is in Water sign; or
c) you might be an Aries-Sun, but your personal planets (Mercury, Venus) are in Pisces ( they can be only 27 (Mercury respectively) and 48 (Venus) degrees away from the Sun);or
d) you have your Moon in 12th house, 4th, or 8th house, or you have important planets (or rulers of these houses) in there;

I would like to know WHICH astrologers are stating, that Pisces and Capricorn together are the best combination????????????

wow!!!! yes, it is the best combination of course from one point of view, and that is: CAPRICORN always victimizes PISCES.

Ps; your Moon and Jupiter is in the 12th house (natural water sign, that's why your friends are mostly Water signs, as well as, the North Node is in Pisces - another indication for Water-groups attracting to you).

It's not only the sighs where the planets are, it is very-very important, which houses are in.

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Sorry, I never came back to this thread until today. I know you don't mix them together, I was just speaking in theory... "what if" terms.

I thought it was interesting one of your reasons for my water friends was that I had no water in my chart. I thought you needed elements in your chart in order to attract them (because of like attracts like). However, you're right. The only water in my chart is Pluto in Scorpio. The majority of my chart is earth elements. I DO think my moon is in my 12th house actually.