Celtic Astrology Sign

Labhraín

I have been trying to figure out what my Celtic astrology sign is. I have come across many websites which say it's one thing and some which say it's another. I'm finding some inconsistencies in what they say a person's sign is. One site will say (for me) it's Vine and another will say it's Hazel and I don't know which is accurate. Do you have a website or a book that you can recommend as being an accurate source for determining one's Celtic astrology sign?
 

zhan.thay

Hmmm. Good luck with your quest. There seems to be a lot of uncertainty and conjecture in this field. After a quick look at Celtic calendar and the White Goddess on Wikipedia I didn't feel confident of coming to any conclusions. When I looked at:
http://www.whats-your-sign.com/celtic-tree-astrology.html it was also unclear. My birthday is 3 September which put me in Vine but reading the delineation for that read like a traditional reading for Sun in Libra whereas I am a Virgo - corresponding more (in meaning) with Hazel. There are Ogham study groups here in Divination, see this index and go from there:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=61886
Some of what I've read makes reference to other websites where I learned about the Ogham alphabet for instance.

All very interesting, especially as I have Welsh heritage on both sides of my family + a wee bit o Scots. Trouble is, I was born and live in Australia where those trees are not native. I'd be interested to see what you find out.
 

Labhraín

Done some research....

Hi Zhan,

I'm sorry that it took me so long to respond, but I have been able to do some research. I scrubbed through a lot of web sites to see if there was any sort of consistency among them regarding what one's Celtic Astrology sign is. I have listed the sites here, with my own sign next to each site just as an example, so you can see what the level of consistency is among them. Most of them say Hazel, a couple say Poplar, but I have this beautiful astrology pendant from an Irish jeweler that says that the month of August (my birth month) corresponds to Vine.

Try each of these websites and see what they all say. I would be interested in knowing what your findings are.

http://www.whats-your-sign.com/celtic-tree-astrology.html = Hazel
http://www.celticradio.net/php/zodiac.php?type=index = Hazel
http://edenstreehouse.webs.com/celtictreeastrology.htm = Hazel
http://www.tarot.com/astrology/celtic-signs = Hazel
http://www.myspiritualprofile.com/content/spiritual_reading_summary.cfm = Poplar
http://apanache.wordpress.com/irish-claddagh-ring/irish-astrology-symbols/ = Hazel
http://www.mysticscripts.com/astrology/celtic-astrology/celtic-astrology/ = Hazel
http://www.crystalwind.ca/astrology/celtic-astrology/5004-celtic-astrology.html = Hazel OR Poplar (NOTE: This site states that there are two variations of Celtic Astrology. Perhaps the sites that designate you as a sign that you feel is wrong is using the other variation? Check this site out to see if the other version of Celtic astrology gives you the sign that you feel better matches you).
http://www.revmarilynmorgan.com/Celtic-Astrology.html = Hazel
http://christopherpenczak.com/celtic-astrology-tree-signs/#.Un7JSnDYdNs = Hazel
http://blog.californiapsychics.com/blog/2013/01/celtic-astrology-whats-your-sign.html = Hazel
 

tohrutohno

Hmmm I've gone to all your sites and believe you're correct about the two types of astrology. On only two of the sites was I the apple tree (which didn't even exist on the other sites) and on all other sites I was the oak.
 

ravynangel

deleted :)
 

zhan.thay

It seems to me that the general theme is to suggest a division of the year into lunar "months". However, as we know, New Moons and Full Moons don't necessarily coincide with the same calendar date year to year. In fact, the closest approximation is about a 19 year cycle. So, like a Chinese Astrology book I have, the calendar dating of each lunar month is different for each year suggesting that, in Celtic Astrology, which year you were born in, plus the date, need to be taken in to account to determine which lunar month you were born in.

We can see how events dependent on Lunar cycles change calendar dates when we look at the way Easter appears each year on a different date. As I understand it, the date of Good Friday is determined by being the first Friday on, or after, the first Full Moon, on, or after, the March Equinox. I have read that this is based on ecclesiastical dates and not necessarily when astronomers would determine the exact event. The place (read longitude) where this occurs also plays in to the timing.

I will be doing some more research on this and posting more detail about a field of Buddhist astrology called Kalachakra, or Wheel of Time, which parallels Chinese Astrology and uses Lunar months. In my opinion, Edward Henning is the foremost authority in this field and his website has a wealth of information and reasoned argument about how the calendar system and its dating works. http://www.kalacakra.org/

Assumptions need to be made such as: when does the day start?: Is it at midnight, noon or daybreak?; and when does a month start?: Is it the date on which a New Moon occurs at a certain place or the first full day after that? Should it be named according to what sign the Full Moon falls in in that cycle? Also should a 'dark' half of a cycle begin at the darkest time or should the darkest time be at the centre of that half? And so on.
 

ravynangel

deleted :)
 

zhan.thay

Try each of these websites and see what they all say. I would be interested in knowing what your findings are.

http://www.whats-your-sign.com/celtic-tree-astrology.html = Vine
http://www.celticradio.net/php/zodiac.php?type=index = Vine "new moon" type (note: I was born on the Full Moon)
http://edenstreehouse.webs.com/celtictreeastrology.htm = Bramble/Vine Tree
http://www.tarot.com/astrology/celtic-signs = Vine
http://www.myspiritualprofile.com/content/spiritual_reading_summary.cfm = Weeping Willow Tree
http://apanache.wordpress.com/irish-claddagh-ring/irish-astrology-symbols/ = Vine
http://www.mysticscripts.com/astrology/celtic-astrology/celtic-astrology/ = The Vine Tree
http://www.crystalwind.ca/astrology/celtic-astrology/5004-celtic-astrology.html = Vine + Weeping Willow (NOTE: This site states that there are two variations of Celtic Astrology. Perhaps the sites that designate you as a sign that you feel is wrong is using the other variation? Check this site out to see if the other version of Celtic astrology gives you the sign that you feel better matches you).
http://www.revmarilynmorgan.com/Celtic-Astrology.html = not shown
http://christopherpenczak.com/celtic-astrology-tree-signs/#.Un7JSnDYdNs = Vine
http://blog.californiapsychics.com/blog/2013/01/celtic-astrology-whats-your-sign.html = Vine

So, largely consistent in sign placement but the interpretations vary widely and include some that relate to Virgo, some that appear to relate to Libra and some that I regard as totally irrelevant.

Thanks for compiling the list of sites. It was an intriguing exercise. I have to say some of the bloggers are 'colourful'.
 

zhan.thay

It's not based on lunar months as such, but the lunar cycle itself, particularly the full moon. The association of the Celtic tree or animal comes into play from the time of the full moon in that particular cycle, until the next full moon, so that part of the ogham interpretation as timing is valid, its just not known if it was ever used as a tool for divination.
Ok. So, I was born a little after Full Moon on 3rd September 1955 which would place me at the start of that Moon cycle.

If I was born 3rd September 1956 it would be just before New Moon
If I was born 3rd September 1954 it would be just before First Quarter

When does the Druid's year begin? March equinox which is a solar date? When does the Druid's cycle of 13 Lunar 'months' begin?

According to http://www.joellessacredgrove.com/Celtic/tree.html
Today the counting of the Celtic tree calendar begins with the full moon nearest Yule. Perhaps it once began with the full moon nearest Samhain since, until the influence of the Norse, Samhain marked the beginning of the Celtic New Year. When you have pinpointed the full moon closest to Yule, count off the thirteen moons of the lunar year and mark them with their Tree Calendar names.*
Yule being Winter Solstice (Northern hemisphere) - a solar date

Yule: 22 Dec 1953, closest Full Moon: 20 Dec 1953, 3 Sep 1954 occurs in the 9th moon cycle - Hazel, which finished (in that year) with the next Full Moon 12 Sep 1954

Yule: 22 Dec 1954, closest Full Moon: 10 Dec 1954, 3 Sep 1955 occurs in the 10th Moon cycle - Vine, which started (in that year) with the Full Moon of 2 Sep 1955

Yule: 22 Dec 1955, closest Full Moon: 29 Dec 1955, 3 Sep 1956 occurs in the 9th moon cycle - Hazel, which finished (in that year) with the next Full Moon 20 Sep 1955

Using the same 'modern' calendar date, my birth date ended up in the Vine moon cycle but people born in years either side of mine were in the Hazel cycle.

PS: the same website says the Celtic New Year begins at sunset on October 31 - Samhain as noted above.
 

ravynangel

Ok. So, I was born a little after Full Moon on 3rd September 1955 which would place me at the start of that Moon cycle.

If I was born 3rd September 1956 it would be just before New Moon
If I was born 3rd September 1954 it would be just before First Quarter

When does the Druid's year begin? March equinox which is a solar date? When does the Druid's cycle of 13 Lunar 'months' begin?

deleted :)