Fish

Pisces and Neptune.They are totaly different thing then other maleifics,or signs ruled by those planets.With Mars afflictions,or Aries in some house(better to say cusp),we know what to expect.With Uranus afflictions,we know by the nature of that planet(electrical and ever changing),the course of that kind of situation.Saturn and Capricorn represent depression(among other qualities,like gloom and tasks to be overcomed by persistent action).And so on.Even Scorpio and Pluto are more or less clear to us(keyword-elimination or rebirth-in case of adverse aspects,it is elimination).Interesting,but if any of those signs are by some case intercepted in some house,I think that they act like a bomb,because energy of any of those signs is not shared with any other house.In those cases we might say that they`re almost of equal strength and importance for that house,as a sign on that house cusp(but this is the subject for another discussion).
Lets get back to Pisces and Neptune.They are different then other afflictions.Why?Because we don`t exactly know what to expect there.Everything seem normal-and then suddenly we get deceipt.Like Judas and Christ.Judas acted like Pisces.When Neptune aspects some planet or point in a chart with bad aspect(square or opposition),he decives that person in areas that are afflicted.We can start with Mercury and finish with Venus.Or vica versa.
Yes,Pisces are very interesting.Without them,we would miss a lot of beautiful things in this world.Dreams,illusion and art maybe.And eventually better side of those few fishes is quite desirable.But,if we go deeper with second quality of that sign,we might find ourselves in the sea of sorrow.That sorrow is a different thing then Capricorn`s depression.We`ll be in 12th house then,in mysterious waters,deep down and underneath,and our destiny will be the destiny of any planet placed in 12th house,afflicted more or less.Or destiny of matters related to any house where Pisces(or afflicted Neptune) are.

The effects may seem nebulous, but I've found the negative expressions of Neptune to have distinct trends, just like any other planet. e.g. when I see Neptune in harsh aspect to Mars I consider an increased likelyhood of substance abuse or sexual abuse. I'm only listing the negatives here though.

Defining Neptune

A mentor of mine from the 1970's, Robert Pellitier (Planets in Houses, Planets in Aspect) once stated, "Neptune is the reality of illusion and Saturn in the illusion of reality."

We are familiar with Saturn and its proclivity to using "structure" and "form" as a means of framing its lessons -- rules, guidelines, lessons are all associated with Saturn. Yet, what are these rules, guidelines and lessons all about? They are things such as responsibility, stability, caution -- things that are harder to define, things that are in our minds and in our relationships.

When we look at Neptune, we see the opposite in that we are presented with something to believe in such as a story, a god, a cause, a salesman's pitch -- and what do these all involve? Buying a book, donating to a church, supporting a cause, using your credit card -- actions that involve providing material things in response to the Neptunian presentation.

These very basic meanings sometimes get lost in our rush to recall or to refer to books on interpretive meanings. As Leephd noted in another posting, there was a great push following World War II within astrological practices to shift the focus of practice toward psychology, to understanding NEEDS. The above statements on Saturn and Neptune reflect a view of these planets in terms of "needs" -- the need to find a pattern or structure for our life's hard lessons, a need to believe in something outside of our selves so that we can have connectedness with those around us.

As we consider the outer bodies (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto) we have to shift our awareness of self (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars) within a social interaction of friends, work, goals, focus on achievement (Jupiter, Saturn) to that of the outer world where unforeseen sudden influences, concepts and beliefs, and evolutionary and unstoppable change occur. These "outer developments" often intrude into our social-work-friends-achievement efforts and then into our sense of self and our feelings about others.

We tend to live and enjoy our inner planets, put up with our social planets, and try to ignore and shut out the outer planets. Perhaps this is what Leephd meant by "autopilot" living. We seize upon Jupiter-Saturn opportunities in shallow ways and then just "minimally respond" to outer-planet-related pressures in ways that try to slide past their experiences and meanings.

So, Belatrix, we shouldn't blame ourselves if we are somewhat inept at dealing with Neptune, or even Pluto and Uranus. We culturally, in a common way, are left on our own with few guidelines. People don't always talk about Neptune and Pluto related experiences, and they only respond with shock and wonder at Uranus experiences by talking about what happened to them without looking at the underlying causes. Its only when we push ourselves to look, listen and learn that we make progress with managing the outer-planet events in our lives in a better way. Dave

I have always placed Pisces under the rulership of Jupiter, with Neptune as a secondary influence. I am quite clearly a Jupiterian Pisces (Sun, Mercury and Saturn in Pisces, including a closely conjunct Sun and Mercury, and Chiron), though Neptune plays a role in my life in two ways: in my strong poetic imagination and in my occasional flights into self-delusion. However I have noticed one thing in my life: that what might start as self-delusion eventually comes about by dint of Jupiterian magic. A metaphysician might call it the power of positive thinking - I call it simply turning my dreams into reality

I think to place Pisces only within Neptune's realm is to do the sign a disservice. In my experience, the primary influence of Jupiter should be recognised, though not, of course, forgetting Neptune.

What I have never understood, however, is WHY Neptune - the powerful father of the oceans - is considered an influence of illusions. In mythology, Neptune is not illusive, though he can be tempestuous! Maybe an astrologer can enlighten me?

I call the inner planets 'tribal mentality' and the outer ones, 'beyond tribal mentality'. I think most of the world is in a phase where it doesn't quite grasp the next evolution of the species.

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I hear you. Right on. Dave

Helvetica said:

What I have never understood, however, is WHY Neptune - the powerful father of the oceans - is considered an influence of illusions. In mythology, Neptune is not illusive, though he can be tempestuous! Maybe an astrologer can enlighten me?

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I'm glad you asked! If anyone knows, I'd love to know as well. My guess is that it seems to me the modern astrologers focused more on associations and psuedo psychology rather than the more systematic and logical approach that older astrology is founded upon. So perhaps it's something as vague as the water connection? OR perhaps whoever discovered Neptune called it Neptune and the planetary energy failed to live up to the moniker?......

You want to know why Neptune? Well, he is the God of Storms. Who thinks water is always nice and smooth hasn't experienced its real power. Ever got a Piscean angry? Difficult but not impossible. I am Pisces with Asc. Pisces and Neptune in the 9th house. Once we Pisces are pissed off, we just throw your stuff out of the door and you as well. You may come back as a friend sometimes later, but for once - bugger off.

Pisceas are deceptive and traitors? Nope, they aren't. Its like the Sharks, you just need to know what it means when the flipper get this curious shape and the mouth this whide grin... There are always signs of warnings, but the other star signs are to full of themself of how beautiful their egos and needs are, that they don't expect somebody with so much endurance and the strike to suffer would kick back one day. But Pisces do.

The credit card thing. Ah yes, love that one. The archetypos stuff of the books. Well, let me tell you, Pisces have no big relation to money. It doesn't mean anything else than to be spend for things which are nice. Its fine if there is money to spend, its also okay if its not - in opposite other star signs like Cancer who need Money and Wealth to push up little egos.

And no, I hardly disagree with the Jupiter statement. I stick to my lovely Neptune and nasty Jupiter this big blown off planet of - I make everything better for you - may go where it belongs. Pisces does not need Jupiter. Neptune is quite nice for my behalf and I apreciate him. lol

Regards
Petra