Tarot and Folklore -- Research Query

crone

I learned the Tarot over 45 years ago from my Iranian room mate who gracious shared the traditions and reading skills as she had been taught her through oral tradition. I learned using a deck of playing cards because at the time it was very difficult to obtain a "proper" tarot deck, and even more difficult to find anything available in English (or German, which I also read and speak) on its use and origins.

One of the things that caught my attention early on were what I’ve come to refer to as "folk" designations given to certain cards and suits. I know it has become popular to fashion titles and images for individual cards and suits, but I am looking for information on card/suit designations used in folk tradition and taught as part of a shared or rembered oral tradition rather than from literary or scholarly traditions such as those fashioned by the Golden Dawn, Crowley, or Levi.

For example, I was taught that the suit referred to popularly as Pentacles is not the suit of material realtionships and wealth, (although this can be part of it) but primarily, the suit involves earth magic and its mastery the echos of which meaning may have influenced the popular choice of the pentagram, or pentacle, as signifier for this suit.

Another example is the “folk” name of certain court or pip cards; I was taught that the King of Swords is known as the Destroyer (Shvia), Sadist (or later the Marquis de Sade), the Six of Cups as unrequited love (or, later, the Card of Romeo and Juliette), the Page of Swords, the warrior maiden (Amazon), Valkryia,(or later, Jean d'Arc), the Queen of Swords as "She who cannot be turned" (one the the fates such as Atropos “one who cuts the thread”, or even the Goddess Kali Ma.

This "folk" knowledge is often found in how various cards relate or interact with each other: I was taught that the Queen of Pentacles (earth magic, and realm of the senses) was both the Crone (the Eternal Return) of the Goddess triad, and dark side (sister) of the Priestess (aesthetic and spiritual realm) and Maiden of the Goddess triad. And finally, the Queen of Cups (realm of the emotions) may represent the Mother, or Source of Life (the well) in the goddess triad. In the oldest grail and quest legends, we see how Guinevere is presented as a "white" sorceress (Priestess or May Queen), while her husband's sister, Morgan(na) (Queen of Pentacles) is the "dark" sorceress and her rival (also, Hel, Hecate, the Gate (Samain).

Would anyone like to share any oral tradition/information regarding the cards? It does not matter if it is fortune-telling related, since I am finding a lot of "truth" cutting both ways. Thanks so much, and thank you for welcoming me into the circle! Bright Blessings!
 

Teheuti

What an interesting description of the cards!

While pieces of what you say accord with old popular mythic and historical person assignments for the Court Cards (sometimes even printed on the cards themselves), your system seems to have it's own storyline attached.

I suppose that rather than it being a true 'folk tradition,' rather, this was a system designed by an individual for him or herself and taught in private classes or one-on-one. Before the Internet it wasn't unusual for a teacher in their own geographic location, unknown to the general 'tarot world,' to have quite a following for a very personalized system that they had made-up, along with a lineage history to back it all up. You might say it's part of the occult mythic tradition to do so. This doesn't mean that their innovations weren't mixed with material from books or from their own teacher (be it a parent or otherwise). It can also be that their system works very well!

I once had a teacher who concocted all kinds of historical 'facts' about the cards that I've never found elsewhere. I actually learned a lot about tarot, history and cultural myths in the futile process of trying to track these stories down.

Yes, it was 19th century magicians who changed the suit of Money into Talismans or Pentacles, but that doesn't mean it isn't about both - depending on the question. I use the keywords "worth, value and security" because they can cover both.

You'll find a few similarities to your system in Barbara Walker's tarot book and deck,such as the Queen of Swords as Kali. I can't speak to more specifics without spending a lot of time looking them up - which I can't do right now - but check out Barbara Walker's book _The Secrets of the Tarot_.
 

3Jane

I've got Barbara Walker's deck and its companion book. Sadly, the scholarship is atrocious :/

Connecting court cards to god/dess figures reminds me of how figure cards in the normal playing deck used to be connected to historical and legendary people. For example, Wikipedia gives the following correspondences:

King of Spades: David (a biblical king)
King of Hearts: Charles (presumably after Charlemagne)
King of Diamonds: Caesar (presumably after Julius Caesar, dictator of the Roman Republic)
King of Clubs: Alexander (king of Macedon)

Queen of Spades: Athena
Queen of Hearts: Judith (Biblical figure)
Queen of Diamonds: Rachel (Biblical figure)
Queen of Clubs: Argine (an anagram of Regina, Latin for "queen")

Jack of spades: Ogier
Jack of hearts: La Hire
Jack of diamonds: Hector
Jack of clubs: Lancelot
 

Cerulean

Just trying to get more folkloric information...and it may not be Barbara Walker

The information in the first post fascinated me because there curious things linked to cartomancy or telling fortunes by cards.

I have a small circa 1932, reprinted 1950's essay/impression from someone's travelogue along the Seine about cardmakers from Rouen and a court card associated with "Le Hire" and it seems folkloric playing card idea.

The mention of Hindu gods that the first posting cited also reminded me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganjifa

If there is a link to the Portugese playing cards, it might be another case of a gambling game brought by sailors to a far port and being disguised with pictures of local ornamentation to avoid edicts about foreign playing cards...playing cards with gods of good fortune, paintings of flowers and poetic motifs in Japan (Hana Fuda for one) came some 400 years ago to port cities such as Nagasaki...

Hope to hear more and will return with the Rouen court card fable later.

Cerulean
 

Zephyros

This is a very interesting take on the cards, and makes me think of the Sola Busca, which has Greek, Roman and biblical mythology on it. Those pictures weren't done by Golden Dawn rules, they were done much before those.
 

Teheuti

I've got Barbara Walker's deck and its companion book. Sadly, the scholarship is atrocious :/
Agreed. I mention it because she makes Kali the Queen of Swords, I believe. And I think a couple of other figures mentioned also appear in her deck and book. Given the specific details, I believe that Barbara Walker's tarot is much closer to the system Crone describes than to the Sola Busca, Indian ganjifa, or cartomancy decks that others have mentioned.

As to folk traditions - there's Chambers' Book of Days with English playing card meanings from the mid-19th century, learned from a woman who had been a soldier's wife during the Napoleonic Wars.

There are several threads listing traditions we'll all heard around tarot cards - you have to get your first deck as a gift, wrap it in silk, etc. I've mentioned several times that there's an old Italian tradition where you only read cards on certain days of the week (based on the God that rules that day).

The Nine of Cups or Hearts has long been called the Wish Card, while the Ace of Spades or Swords is traditionally a bad card (until more modern meanings tended to make Aces generally good).

The Court Card names given by 3Jane are among the most common, although you'll find plenty of variations.