Vision Quest - Thoth based deck

DesertDream

Moderators please move if this is the wrong forum.

I love the artwork of the original Thoth. However I refuse to purchase a copy because Ive read way too many unsavory things about A.C. I dont intented to offend anyone here, but he is not my bag of chips. I like the system of his tarot and would like to know more about reading it and how it differs from a Rider. I have a Thoth based deck called Vision Quest. It looks like a Native American version clone, if you havnt seen it. From what ive read it does seem like a more difficult system to learn and does look like it reads differently than Rider. To me it looks like fancy illustrated minors of a Visconti while Rider is more picturesqe. So Im wondering, how do I go about reading the deck in a traditional Thoth style? To me it seems Id need a strong background in numberolgy and astrology mainly and elements. It looks like when you read from the deck interpritations can be gleaned by the energies that show up by the cards rather than reading interpritations by events like the Rider. (Correct me if Im wrong). How would a Thoth based deck be different to read and how does a beginner in this system go about learning the basics? Is the Thoth based deck overall similar enough to not warrent too much study of subjects already touched upon by the Rider?

Thanks ahead for the help!
 

Zephyros

I don't really know this deck, but from the scans I've seen online I don't really see anything "Thothy" about it, so I'm not really sure how to answer your question.

There are many different decks that proclaim themselves to be Thoth-influenced, but everyone has a different definition for what that means. My own is quite rigid, and I can't see it in this deck.

What do you think about it?
 

ravenest

If you refuse to get into a thoth deck because you read 'unsavory things' then leave it alone.

Why are you looking for a copy of something so 'unsavory' ... especially when this deck doesnt even appear to be a copy.

Why would you want to read another deck in a 'traditional Thoth style' when you are refusing to get the original because what you have heard ? :confused:
 

DesertDream

If you refuse to get into a thoth deck because you read 'unsavory things' then leave it alone.

Why are you looking for a copy of something so 'unsavory' ... especially when this deck doesnt even appear to be a copy.

Why would you want to read another deck in a 'traditional Thoth style' when you are refusing to get the original because what you have heard ? :confused:

The deck itself is beautiful but the author itself I find unsavory. Im interested in reading the tarot format to see how it works from the Rider deck. Id rather not let the deck go to waste because it is interesting. The format/style i dont mind. The pictures online definatly look inspired by the art and the vision quest page on aeclectic says its tradition is Thoth? Its not a rider for sure.
 

Zephyros

The deck itself is beautiful but the author itself I find unsavory. Im interested in reading the tarot format to see how it works from the Rider deck. Id rather not let the deck go to waste because it is interesting. The format/style i dont mind. The pictures online definatly look inspired by the art and the vision quest page on aeclectic says its tradition is Thoth? Its not a rider for sure.

As much as it physically pains me to admit ravenest is correct, this time I must. While the mainstream attitude is that there are two "schools" of Tarot, RWS and Thoth, this isn't true. The Thoth has a unique outlook and method, not to mention agenda, that really can't easily be cloned like the RWS. What mainly differentiates the Thoth from other pips, esoteric decks, is the concept of Thelema which is inseparable from it. I can't really see it being adapted to Native Peoples' ideals and culture.

However, it seems you have some questions about the man himself. I recommend you open a separate thread in Talking Tarot asking about Aleister Crowley himself, his personality and the many stories and controversies surrounding him. I think you might be surprised.

However, the forum guidelines don't allow the topic to be explored here in Thoth, for reasons that are explained in them. But I do urge you to open a thread in TT with your questions.
 

DesertDream

As much as it physically pains me to admit ravenest is correct, this time I must. While the mainstream attitude is that there are two "schools" of Tarot, RWS and Thoth, this isn't true. The Thoth has a unique outlook and method, not to mention agenda, that really can't easily be cloned like the RWS. What mainly differentiates the Thoth from other pips, esoteric decks, is the concept of Thelema which is inseparable from it. I can't really see it being adapted to Native Peoples' ideals and culture.

However, it seems you have some questions about the man himself. I recommend you open a separate thread in Talking Tarot asking about Aleister Crowley himself, his personality and the many stories and controversies surrounding him. I think you might be surprised.

However, the forum guidelines don't allow the topic to be explored here in Thoth, for reasons that are explained in them. But I do urge you to open a thread in TT with your questions.

I think the lwb deck of the VQ says its not really the intention of this tarot to puport or embody of the red way of Native Americans. I think it is just a theme artstyle wise

I dont really have questions about AC himself, but the Thoth format of the deck and its comparison and how to go about the differences and such. Im wondering if the way of reading the VQ deck is similar to Thoth since that is the decks inspiration is taken from? If there is no comparison to rider i can get that. But i cant really read the VQ within a rider format. It goes along with thoth more i find so thats why im asking how to go about it.
 

Michael Sternbach

In reply to your various comments and questions:

Not all the popular ideas about Crowley are accurate, although he was indeed at once both a genius and quite a colourful character.

But if we were to dismiss all the great works of art and literature created by colourful characters, there wouldn't be too much left.

There are some real Thoth derivatives with unique aspects such as the Liber T. Overall, the VQ doesn't seem to belong into that category.

However, if I attempt to answer your question regarding Thoth-like decks, especially their pip cards, I would say that they in fact express but energy patterns. They are ideal for psycho-spiritual purposes but don't lend themselves as directly to reading on concrete situations as i.e. the RWS. They rather show individuals' psychological reactions to those. The distinction is by no means an absolute one, it is merely a question of emphasis, to be sure.

I doubt that a thread dedicated to the VQ per say will get a lot of attention in the Thoth forum. A more general thread that compares reading Thoth type decks with reading RWS type decks might find interest though.
 

DesertDream

In reply to your various comments and questions:

Not all the popular ideas about Crowley are accurate, although he was indeed at once both a genius and quite a colourful character.

But if we were to dismiss all the great works of art and literature created by colourful characters, there wouldn't be too much left.

There are some real Thoth derivatives with unique aspects such as the Liber T. Overall, the VQ doesn't seem to belong into that category.

However, if I attempt to answer your question regarding Thoth-like decks, especially their pip cards, I would say that they in fact express but energy patterns. They are ideal for psycho-spiritual purposes but don't lend themselves as directly to reading on concrete situations as i.e. the RWS. They rather show individuals' psychological reactions to those.

I doubt that a thread dedicated to the VQ per say will get a lot of attention in the Thoth forum. A more general thread that compares reading Thoth type decks with reading RWS type decks might find interest though.

I agree that he was brilliant thats not the issue. Ive looked up a lot of VQ cards in the deck and I have no doubt that it copys the Thoth however. So i dont know why it wouldnt be in the same catagory? If it has very similar pictures in the pips wouldnt it be ment to read like the Thoth? I cant deny the obvious inspiration of the deck. Im wondering if i should post pictures of all the cards directly copying the deck? Lol

I do agree with you on your rider and thoth comparison though.
 

Richard

.....I love the artwork of the original Thoth. However I refuse to purchase a copy because Ive read way too many unsavory things about A.C......

The personal characteristics of a creator may have nothing at all to do with the value of his creations.

Richard Wagner was a thoroughly disgusting womanizer and anti-Semite. Yet his magnificent operas are appreciated by women as well as Jewish music lovers. See, for example, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/movies/stephen-fry-narrates-the-documentary-wagner-me.html?_r=0. You will find similar expressions of appreciation of Wagner's work in various Jewish publications. (Do a Google search.)

I admit that I used to let my opinion of an artist's life influence my judgment of his or her work, but I later came to believe that inspiration was not necessarily influenced by their character or morality (or lack thereof).

I see absolutely no evidence of Crowley's supposedly unsavory reputation in the Thoth deck, so I do not thereby deprive myself of enjoying its excellence.