Barleywine
I notice in The Mountain Astrologer that the "natal" chart for the founding of the United States is called the "Sibly" chart. Is that the same Sibly?
Liz Greene
I notice in The Mountain Astrologer that the "natal" chart for the founding of the United States is called the "Sibly" chart. Is that the same Sibly?
Minderwiz
Yes, Ebenezer Sibly (1751-c1799) born in Bristol and an English sympathiser with those prototype Tea Party candidates in Boston
You'll find more about him here:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sibly.html#sibly
Barleywine
Yes, Ebenezer Sibly (1751-c1799) born in Bristol and an English sympathiser with those prototype Tea Party candidates in Boston
You'll find more about him here:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sibly.html#sibly
The University of Toronto library has an on-line pdf of the "New and Revised Illustration of the Celestial Science of Astrology" (published in 1826 and no longer in copyright). The biography mentions that he copied large sections of material from earlier texts. Do you suppose much of it came from Christian Astrology? It looks suspiciously like Lilly.
Minderwiz
There's also an article by Allen Debus, linked to the Skyscript page, showing his main interest as medicine.
I've not seen any direct reference to him copying material, but if he did, the obvious candidates would be Lilly, Coley, Partridge and Gadbury. He did re-publish Culpepper's Herbal and it might (and I stress might because I've no evidence) have been influenced in part by Richard Saunders
ihcoyc
My unscientific impression is that almost every writer on astrology in English before the middle of the 1800s took Lilly as a model, and introduced the subject in the same order and with the same method. Almost all move directly into horary material like Lilly does, and a lot of it seems to have been copied directly.
There is a fairly long collection of available PD texts in this list at skyscript.co.uk as well. Parkes's ("Ebn Shemaya")The Star seems to have quite a bit of information in it, though I've just recently downloaded it. "Astrology As It Is" by "A Cavalry Officer" is amusingly daffy in the places it hasn't just been copied out of Lilly.
There is a fairly long collection of available PD texts in this list at skyscript.co.uk as well. Parkes's ("Ebn Shemaya")The Star seems to have quite a bit of information in it, though I've just recently downloaded it. "Astrology As It Is" by "A Cavalry Officer" is amusingly daffy in the places it hasn't just been copied out of Lilly.
Barleywine
Thanks for the comprehensive list. I downloaded The Star and started browsing through it. As one who was trained to write in a conversational style, I find paragraph-long, 125-word sentences a bit daunting until I immerse myself in the flow. I find myself breathing hard as I envision someone actually enunciating every one of the words.
ihcoyc
Indeed; a lot of pre-Theosophy astrological writing in English seems to consist of a flowery preface bristling with Latin and Greek, prepended to a text mostly copied from Lilly. They also seemed to borrow heavily from the master of the style, Robert Burton and his Anatomy of Melancholy.
It ain't possible for any of the other temperaments to get such a book written about 'em. The sanguine would be succinct; the choleric wouldn't have the patience, and the phlegmatic would never finish his'n. Every student of astrology probably ought to try to read it, even if there isn't much practical astrology in it. It is one of my favorite old books.
It ain't possible for any of the other temperaments to get such a book written about 'em. The sanguine would be succinct; the choleric wouldn't have the patience, and the phlegmatic would never finish his'n. Every student of astrology probably ought to try to read it, even if there isn't much practical astrology in it. It is one of my favorite old books.
Minderwiz
Lilly wrote almost at the moment of the death of Astrology - judicial Astrology went into virtually terminal decline between 1650 and 1700. The decline was accompanied by the cessation of the teaching of Astrology in universities. From being a mainstay of medical degrees it disappeared - Harvey's revolution in showing the functioning of the body and the circulation of blood being one cause. Growing rationalism and humanism on the one hand and a strengthening of religious strictures on the other seem to have been key reasons. A more detailed consideration is found in Campion's History of Western AStrology vol 2.
The net effect was that those who continued to practice it had no source of new learning and fell into the practice of reusing and then modifying existing texts. The Witchcraft Act of 1735 imposed penalties for 'pretending to see the future' which made it very difficult to practice openly. Yes there are some notable figures, but they seem more concerned in preserving rather than developing Astrology.
ihcoyc
My understanding is that astrology came to be politically suspect as well following the Restoration. Lilly and Culpeper were both popularizers. They both wanted to break learning about astrology and herbalism out of learned tongues into English. The Civil War resulted in a general breakdown of censorship regimes and the power of learned societies that could otherwise have acted to protect their trade secrets.
This had the result of associating astrology with republicanism, apocalyptic prophecy and other sorts of political and religious fanaticism that were deeply suspect when the restoration came. I haven't read any of Lilly's political stuff, but the period itself interests me.
I've never read any of Lilly's political or almanac material, but should seek it out. (And we're wandering quite far afield from Liz Greene.)
Minderwiz
The impact of the Restoration is seen as important by Patrick Curry, but the decline in Astrology was Europe wide, so whilst that might have been a contributing factor in England, it doesn't explain similar declines in France (where Astrology had just reached it's peak with Morin) and Italy. In Italy the Papal Bull of 1631 did contribute to the closing down of Astrological publications but Campion reckons that 'disgodding, disenchantment and the removal of the divine or soul from nature' was a most significant factor.
There's no disputing the decline was precipitous and it's interesting to note that the 1735 Witchcraft Act treated witchcraft, the occult and Astrology not as real practices but as charlatanry - obtaining money or goods by deception - Astrologers were bad because they were fakes - a very rationalist and humanist position.
