Liz Greene

dadsnook2000

Obtaining books

Over the last decade-plus, the number of specialty book stores has decined in most areas except for major urban centers and a few "new age" or "occult" stores. I have found it necessary, for the most part, to order from Internet sources.

The Internet sources are not only places like Amazon but include publishers such as Barnes and Noble as well as astrological book sellers --- including "used" book sellers. Some astro organizations such as AFA also offer books, as well as some astrological software producers.

If you like the Lunation Cycle you might want to hunt down Marc Robertson's book, The Engine of Destiny." He not only covers the eight-phase Sun-Moon relationships in very practical ways, but he also covers other planet pairings in a similar manner, such as Saturn-Moon, Jupiter-Mercury, Mars-Venus, Saturn-Jupiter, and Uranus-Saturn. These pairings become a short-hand for quickly assessing a chart in terms of character, thinking, family, sexuality, life management and social-adaptation.

A recent purchase of mine was Vivian Robson's "A Student's Text-Book of Astrology" which I acquired for several reasons: First, Robson was a notable researcher of astrological methods used prior to and during his time of practice. Like Carter, he was very diligent in his study, research and very clear in his writing. Second, he discusses, chapter by chapter, the subjects of Infant Mortality and Length of Life, Personal Appearance and Physical Peculiarities, Charcter and Mind, Health and Accidents, Finance, Occupation and Position, Parents-relatives-and Home, Friends and Enemies, Love and Marriage, Children, Travel, Death. Most such books are not organized along these lines of topical interest.

Dave
 

Minderwiz

Over the last decade-plus, the number of specialty book stores has decined in most areas except for major urban centers and a few "new age" or "occult" stores. I have found it necessary, for the most part, to order from Internet sources.

The Internet sources are not only places like Amazon but include publishers such as Barnes and Noble as well as astrological book sellers --- including "used" book sellers. Some astro organizations such as AFA also offer books, as well as some astrological software producers.

Yes I agree with your points, it seems to be a world wide phenomenon because it's definitely the situation here. I gather from Marina's previous posts that book imports into Brazil are now a problem, so there might be difficulties with internet purchases. Nevertheless non-Amazon sources might be worth trying, as they don't advertise themselves all over the packaging.

Dadsnook2000 said:
A recent purchase of mine was Vivian Robson's "A Student's Text-Book of Astrology" which I acquired for several reasons: First, Robson was a notable researcher of astrological methods used prior to and during his time of practice. Like Carter, he was very diligent in his study, research and very clear in his writing. Second, he discusses, chapter by chapter, the subjects of Infant Mortality and Length of Life, Personal Appearance and Physical Peculiarities, Charcter and Mind, Health and Accidents, Finance, Occupation and Position, Parents-relatives-and Home, Friends and Enemies, Love and Marriage, Children, Travel, Death. Most such books are not organized along these lines of topical interest.

Dave

So he follows a traditional approach on organisation, if not on content :). I must admit I find that sort of format to be easy to deal with, as the reader can 'dip in' to whichever topic they wish to 'gen up' on. I'm surprised that more books don't follow that type of structure.

It's the same with predictions, few 'introductory books' have any coverage of predictions - even if only to the extent of sketching out how it fits into the approach to natal Astrology, or indeed other forms of Astrology. Yet originally the purpose of Astrology was prediction, Yes natal Astrology requires some assessment of character and mind (temperament and manners, to use Lilly's phrase) but the purpose is to use prediction to guide the 'native; That's true whether you use a psychological approach or a traditional, or indeed any other approach. There may be good reason (in the UK) why this diversion of direction occurred but if we just use Astrology to assess someone's character we are failing to do justice to the Art.
 

Barleywine

A recent purchase of mine was Vivian Robson's "A Student's Text-Book of Astrology" which I acquired for several reasons: First, Robson was a notable researcher of astrological methods used prior to and during his time of practice. Like Carter, he was very diligent in his study, research and very clear in his writing. Second, he discusses, chapter by chapter, the subjects of Infant Mortality and Length of Life, Personal Appearance and Physical Peculiarities, Charcter and Mind, Health and Accidents, Finance, Occupation and Position, Parents-relatives-and Home, Friends and Enemies, Love and Marriage, Children, Travel, Death. Most such books are not organized along these lines of topical interest.

Dave

I have that one on my list. I think, since the price is comparable to Amazon's, I'm going to buy that directly from the current publisher. Dave Roell (Astrological Center of America) complained in his weekly newsletter that he has only made a little over $750 in direct sales in September, his worst monthly gross in 16 years. Since he is republishing many of the old traditional texts under his Astrology Classics imprint, I would hate to see him fold.
 

MareSaturni

Yes I agree with your points, it seems to be a world wide phenomenon because it's definitely the situation here. I gather from Marina's previous posts that book imports into Brazil are now a problem, so there might be difficulties with internet purchases. Nevertheless non-Amazon sources might be worth trying, as they don't advertise themselves all over the packaging.

Actually, our customs are purposefully delaying the deliver of all international packages (including gifts) to discourage people from buying from abroad. I have been waiting for things I bought back in July... I don't know when (or if) I'll ever get them, so now I'm limiting myself to the Brazilian bookstores (much to my frustration). :(

That's why I have been asking so much about books... I take a look at what the second-hand bookstores have and come here to ask your opinion on it, to see if it's a worthy purchase or not. :)


A recent purchase of mine was Vivian Robson's "A Student's Text-Book of Astrology" which I acquired for several reasons: First, Robson was a notable researcher of astrological methods used prior to and during his time of practice. Like Carter, he was very diligent in his study, research and very clear in his writing. Second, he discusses, chapter by chapter, the subjects of Infant Mortality and Length of Life, Personal Appearance and Physical Peculiarities, Charcter and Mind, Health and Accidents, Finance, Occupation and Position, Parents-relatives-and Home, Friends and Enemies, Love and Marriage, Children, Travel, Death. Most such books are not organized along these lines of topical interest.

I have found for sale here his book A Beginners Guide to Practical Astrology... I am sure it's not the same one you talk about, but from the Amazon summary, it seems to be a VERY interesting book. It is directed at beginners, like me, but it has a different approach. I think I may order this book as soon as I get paid, because there's only one copy of it available here!

Sadly, I could not find any preview of the book as to know if it has the same topical approach as the Student's Text-Book.


So he follows a traditional approach on organisation, if not on content :). I must admit I find that sort of format to be easy to deal with, as the reader can 'dip in' to whichever topic they wish to 'gen up' on. I'm surprised that more books don't follow that type of structure.

THAT would be interesting. To have a book that helps you to put the astrological descriptions into context. Like we have discussed before, most of 'cookbooks' nowadays focus on the psychological aspects of the natal chart, and do not help when you are trying to see beyond the scope of personal descriptions.


It's the same with predictions, few 'introductory books' have any coverage of predictions - even if only to the extent of sketching out how it fits into the approach to natal Astrology, or indeed other forms of Astrology. Yet originally the purpose of Astrology was prediction, Yes natal Astrology requires some assessment of character and mind (temperament and manners, to use Lilly's phrase) but the purpose is to use prediction to guide the 'native; That's true whether you use a psychological approach or a traditional, or indeed any other approach. There may be good reason (in the UK) why this diversion of direction occurred but if we just use Astrology to assess someone's character we are failing to do justice to the Art.

I am surprised that so few of the basic cookbooks talk about predictions... I think that the whole 'prediction' thing became a bit underrated during the last, what, 20-25 years, in almost every "metaphysical" field. Many tarot and card readers refuse to 'make predictions' and claim that they simply offer guidance, advice and whatnot. Chiromancy used to be heavy on predictions, now it's also becoming a 'psychological' art, limited to describing people.

I do think that the idea of prediction makes people uncomfortable, and that explains why many of the modern books on astrology, cartomancy, chiromancy, runes etc. are focusing on the individual descriptions. While many people are looking for real self-knowledge - and that is certainly important - I feel that a big part of the 'metaphysical field' is becoming full of people dedicated to shallow navel-gazing... the kind that does not make them know (or help) themselves any better, despite the amount of time they spend reading or describing themselves.

It's not meant to be a criticism, just an observation - I enjoy learning more about myself and my motives and potentials, but I prefer to do something with all that information. I do think that the self-analysis trend is reflecting in the books. It's hard even to find a book that helps you on choosing a career with the help of astrology (which I don't think is such an outlandish inquiry), because the information gets lost in the middle of the character-description pablum...
 

Barleywine

I do think that the idea of prediction makes people uncomfortable, and that explains why many of the modern books on astrology, cartomancy, chiromancy, runes etc. are focusing on the individual descriptions. While many people are looking for real self-knowledge - and that is certainly important - I feel that a big part of the 'metaphysical field' is becoming full of people dedicated to shallow navel-gazing... the kind that does not make them know (or help) themselves any better, despite the amount of time they spend reading or describing themselves.

It could also be related to the risk of litigation. If someone acts on a financial prediction and loses a lot of money, they might be inclined to sue the astrologer to get some of it back. You would need an iron-clad disclaimer of responsibility that would stand up in a court, and I don't know how many astrologers want to hire a lawyer to set that up for them. Some governments may also have anti-fortune-telling laws that they could prosecute under. Character analysis has way fewer minefields.
 

MareSaturni

It could also be related to the risk of litigation. If someone acts on a financial prediction and loses a lot of money, they might be inclined to sue the astrologer to get some of it back. You would need an iron-clad disclaimer of responsibility that would stand up in a court, and I don't know how many astrologers want to hire a lawyer to set that up for them. Some governments may also have anti-fortune-telling laws that they could prosecute under. Character analysis has way fewer minefields.

Yes indeed, you are absolutely right! I had forgotten about this specific problem, and it's certainly a concern for anyone working with astrology and other divination methods professionally.

That said, I do not think that this factor alone would affect the book market, and I was thinking more about the lack of books focusing on prediction (at least in my local market).
Perhaps it's really a sum of factors. Professional astrologers and card readers feeling more limited due to possible lawsuits in case of human error, combined with the fact that many people are turning to these tools as means to know themselves better (which is supported by the astrologer/card reader themselves, who end up focusing on such services). The publishing houses know what sells and what doesn't (I work in one!), and we all need to pay our bills, so of course they'll invest in books that are closer to much-wanted psychological aspects than the predictions ones. :)

Still, like Minderwiz said, it's a shame when you forsake the prediction aspect of the art, because it is a big part in the history of astrology... The only book I own on astrology that mentions prediction and how it can be used is The Mammoth Book of Fortune Telling. And it devotes only a couple of paragraphs to it.
Should I laugh or cry? :laugh:
 

Barleywine

The only book I own on astrology that mentions prediction and how it can be used is The Mammoth Book of Fortune Telling. And it devotes only a couple of paragraphs to it.
Should I laugh or cry? :laugh:

I would think any book that covers methods like transits, secondary progression, solar arc direction and primary direction would be about nothing but prediction. Even if it's at no deeper level than "Today is a good day to go out and party" or "Today you should stay home and close the blinds." Still, you're right. In the age of psychological astrology even the predictions would be about how the individual will process events internally and not the specific events themselves: "Today when you're run over bus you will feel despondent over the fact that you have no money to pay the doctor because Saturn is afflicting your natal Venus." ;)
 

ihcoyc

Actually, our customs are purposefully delaying the deliver of all international packages (including gifts) to discourage people from buying from abroad. I have been waiting for things I bought back in July... I don't know when (or if) I'll ever get them, so now I'm limiting myself to the Brazilian bookstores (much to my frustration). :(

If accessing books from overseas is a problem, there's all sorts of serviceable material available from before 1922 on Google Books. I know Zadkiel's edition of Lilly is there, and the 1806 two volume edition of Sibly's "Astrology," as are a number of books from Alan Leo. Sepharial's "Directional Astrology" is pretty complicated but seems clear and instructive.
 

Minderwiz

It could also be related to the risk of litigation. If someone acts on a financial prediction and loses a lot of money, they might be inclined to sue the astrologer to get some of it back. You would need an iron-clad disclaimer of responsibility that would stand up in a court, and I don't know how many astrologers want to hire a lawyer to set that up for them. Some governments may also have anti-fortune-telling laws that they could prosecute under. Character analysis has way fewer minefields.

It's pretty easy to come up with a legal disclaimer, simply say you're in the business of entertainment and not to be taken seriously (using the appropriate legal phrases) and put that in very large letters on any written prediction you give - I notice this is being used in quite a few TV Psychic programmes. Then anyone who acts on your prediction is in effect declaring themselves dumb.

The big problem is leaving yourself open to charges of deception or predicting in areas that have a legally recognised authority with quasi judicial powers and control of entry to the relevant professions - such as the British Medical Associate and the Medical profession. Being a Financial Adviser can fall into that category in some countries.

The big problem is the anti-fortune telling laws because these usually have catch all definitions that are likely to get any astrologer, tarot reader, psychic, palmist, etc. The main case in Astrology is that of the prosecutions of Alan Leo in the UK in the early part of the twentienth century,

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/Alan_Leo.html

The psychic, Helen Duncan was prosecuted under the Witchcraft Act, following her revelation in a seance of the sinking of HMS Barham, is another cause celebre.

I did make brief passing reference to problems in the UK in the past, and these cases are not the only ones. The law has since been amended but there's still a reluctance to make predictions. Indeed a number of Astrologers treated predictions (except in the broadest sense) as suspect until recently and indeed many still do. It's a pity as Marina says, but I do recognise the constraints.
 

Minderwiz

If accessing books from overseas is a problem, there's all sorts of serviceable material available from before 1922 on Google Books. I know Zadkiel's edition of Lilly is there, and the 1806 two volume edition of Sibly's "Astrology," as are a number of books from Alan Leo. Sepharial's "Directional Astrology" is pretty complicated but seems clear and instructive.

Zadkiel's Introduction to Astrology is to be avoided - in his own words, he introduced 'numerous emendations adapted to the improved state of science' to Lilly's work. In other words he changed it to fit his own views.

The Astrologers of the nineteenth century are not really the best, but Leo is worth reading, even though he diverted (I would say 'perverted') the course of Astrology. Leo was a Theosophist, and he altered Astrology to make it a vehicle for the beliefs of Theosophy but a reading shows where the modern views of signs come from, and indeed the meanings for Uranus and Neptune.