LovelyMissAries
Oh...
The Aries stellium is indeed my Sun, Merc, and Venus. I have 3 planets in Capricorn in the 7th house though (Satu, Uran, Nept) so now those are a stellium but the Aries planets are not?
Capricorns and water signs.
Oh...
The Aries stellium is indeed my Sun, Merc, and Venus. I have 3 planets in Capricorn in the 7th house though (Satu, Uran, Nept) so now those are a stellium but the Aries planets are not?
MareSaturni
Nope, I was just being impertinent: "N" is for "neurotic"
Ahahahaha!
I like impertinence!
And I apologize for my now even bigger nose!
Thank you for this explanation!
Minderwiz
Well there's no 'traditional' definition as the 'stellium' and indeed other aspect patterns are modern inventions. From a traditional stance a triple conjunction of the superior planets (Mars, Jupiter and Saturn) would be very noteworthy and add some or all of the other 4 and you've got a very big indication of something spectacular.
I do have the book Planets in Containment, though it's more Dave's thing than mine. It seems to me to be loosely connected to the traditional concept of besigement, something that is also in some Vedic practices. The traditional besiegement is only really used if the two 'besieging planets are Mars and Saturn or possibly Lords 8 and 12 (or Lord 6 could be substituted for either of these). The example Lilly gives clearly shows that he's talking about a triple conjunction and specifically Mars and Saturn. The term seems to date back to Medieval Astrology, and symbolises a restriction of action by unwanted forces.
Besiegement and indeed conjunctions generally would not usually be considered across sign boundaries (the main exception being conjunctions with the Sun, as it also signifies a planet which is combust - though even there I've seen some references quoted to combust having to be in sign - I take it simply to mean, within 8 degrees 30' of the Sun)
Barleywine
I suppose it depends on who you talk to. Here are a few quotes from Cunningham's article (with my editing for brevity):
"A stellium consists of several planets in 30 degrees or less of the zodiac." (Hmm, I always thought they at least had to be in the same sign.)
"The classic rule was four planets, of which two had to be other than Sun, Mercury or Venus."
"Modern interpretations lean toward accepting three planets as a stellium. We're especially tempted to view it as one when it involves a multiple conjunction. The orb for a conjunction is usually 8 degrees but can be extended to 10 degrees in a multiple conjunction. The resulting focus of energy has nearly as much impact as a stellium - and a stellium that includes a multiple conjunction is more potent than one that does not."
"Stelliums involving conjunctions between the outermost planets - Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto - are highly memorable but complicated to manage. They represent a life-long learning curve!"
"To generalize, here are some criteria that contribute to or detract from its strength:
- the number of planets involved - four minimum; the more the stronger
- when the planets are far apart with no conjunctions, its weaker
- the number of planets in a particular sign - split into two signs makes it weaker
- the number of planets in a particular house - split into two houses makes it weaker
- when all of the planets in a stellium are in the same sign and house, it's stronger
- when stellium planets are conjunct the Sun, Moon, Ascendant or Midheaven they're stronger
- when a multiple conjunction is present, the stellium is strengthened."
I don't know how much of this is "standard parlance" for the astrological community. I've never been too sure about my "multiple conjunction" - Sun, Mercury,Venus in Cancer, Uranus in Gemini, all within 8 degrees in the 8th house. While I do read it as a conjunction of all four since the Sun sits on the midpoint of the configuration, I've tended to give Uranus more importance as the "planet of oriental appearance" than as a significant contributor to the conjunction. It certainly presaged my strong interest in astrology! On the other hand, I'd have no trouble taking my son's cross-sign stellium, with Sun, Mercury and Saturn closely conjunct in early Scorpio and Pluto at 29 Libra 39, all within 7 degrees of one another.
Barleywine
Out of curiosity, I went fishing on the internet to see what the general astrological public is saying on this subject. As I expected, it's a bit murky overall but everyone seems to agree on one thing: it can be three planets, and nobody is talking about any restrictions on which planets. There is a lot of confusion about sign and house placements, though. When I was learning, we talked about, for example, a "stellium in Libra," implying that all of the planets were in Libra, not two-thirds or half of them in Virgo or Scorpio. We never talked about cross-house stelliums (stellia???). We mainly treated them as fancy conjunctions, since we did expect all of the planets to be reasonably close to one another (10 degrees comes to mind). I don't know what Donna Cunningham was refering to by the "classic rule;" she had no traditional references listed at the end of her article.
Here is what I found:
A Stellium is a configuration that occurs when three or more planets are in the same sign or are in the same house. To be truly significant, a stellium should have four or more planets involved. This places much focus upon the affairs ruled by this house and/or the tendencies shown by the sign involved. Strong will power, self-awareness, and a direct stimulation to action will be shown in these affairs.
A stellium is a multiple conjunction of planets. It's a close cluster of three or more planets in one sign and/or house. The planets are clumped together (within 0 to 5 degrees). This puts an energetic emphasis in the sign and house where it is concentrated.
A stellum is a group of planets/asteroids/node all in the same house.
A stellium is a multiple conjunction of planets. It's a close cluster of three or more planets in one sign and/or house. The planets are clumped together (within 0 to 5 degrees).
A Stellium is technically a group of three or more planets forming conjunctions to one another within an orb of 10° or less. Most astrologers are adamant that the Stellium must occur within the same sign. Actually, I've found that the house placement is most important with Stelliums and the conjunctions should not be divided up between two different houses.
A Stellium (which is technically three or more planets conjunct each other in the same sign, but which can also be considered, by extension, three or more planets in the same sign, conjunct or not) simply represents a tremendous amount of focus on the energy of that sign.
A stellium consists of three or more planets in the same sign of the zodiac. A stellium often brings great power and focus.
Here is what I found:
A Stellium is a configuration that occurs when three or more planets are in the same sign or are in the same house. To be truly significant, a stellium should have four or more planets involved. This places much focus upon the affairs ruled by this house and/or the tendencies shown by the sign involved. Strong will power, self-awareness, and a direct stimulation to action will be shown in these affairs.
A stellium is a multiple conjunction of planets. It's a close cluster of three or more planets in one sign and/or house. The planets are clumped together (within 0 to 5 degrees). This puts an energetic emphasis in the sign and house where it is concentrated.
A stellum is a group of planets/asteroids/node all in the same house.
A stellium is a multiple conjunction of planets. It's a close cluster of three or more planets in one sign and/or house. The planets are clumped together (within 0 to 5 degrees).
A Stellium is technically a group of three or more planets forming conjunctions to one another within an orb of 10° or less. Most astrologers are adamant that the Stellium must occur within the same sign. Actually, I've found that the house placement is most important with Stelliums and the conjunctions should not be divided up between two different houses.
A Stellium (which is technically three or more planets conjunct each other in the same sign, but which can also be considered, by extension, three or more planets in the same sign, conjunct or not) simply represents a tremendous amount of focus on the energy of that sign.
A stellium consists of three or more planets in the same sign of the zodiac. A stellium often brings great power and focus.
Minderwiz
Well traditionally if they're not in the same sign there's no conjunctions and like you I've always taken a stellium as the same sign - though I can see an argument for including planets in the preceding sign that are applying to a conjunction and, that conjunction will be perfected when all the planets are in the same sign. If the planets in the preceding sigu are being separated from then I don't see that any significant weight should be put on the stellium - and of course if those planets are out of orb then the feature makes no Astrological sense under any circumstances (and that could be the case under Cunningham's definition)
Barleywine said:
That's sloppy phraseology and something that tends to annoy me. It gives the impression that this has always been the case in Astrology - it hasn't. I believe, but Dave will correct me if I'm wrong, aspect patterns derive from Bruno and Louise Huber and are a twentieth century development (I believe Louise is still alive and Bruno died in 1999). Hardly 'classic'
Minderwiz
Good research there!!
I reached for my copy of Astrology, Understanding the Birth Chart by Kevin Burk
He defines a stellium as:
technically a group of three or more planets that are conjunct each other
Burk also insists that all aspect patterns have to have the following features:
They must be formed by physical bodies
Orbs must be very small - he quotes 1 degree - otherwise transiting planets will not fire the pattern at the same time - especially transits by the outers
Aspect patterns must be in the correct signs - no out of sign aspects
Now of course that's simply one take but it clearly does not agree with Cunningham.
Personally if I did use aspect patterns, I'd use Burk rather than Cunningham because I can see that under his definition it's possible to argue that the pattern is greater than simply aspects between the constituent planets but looking at the way other Astrologers use aspect patterns I can see that Burk too, is somewhat out on a limb.
Barleywine
Hmm. Did the Hubers precede Marc Edmund Jones, with his Bowls, Buckets, Bundles and Splashes, etc (seven in all)? He published "The Guide to Horoscope Interpretation" with his take on planetary patterns in 1941. Or did you simply mean T-Cross, Grand Cross, Grand Trine, etc? Jones had them covered in 1941 as well, in that book and in "How to Learn Astrology" published the same year. Still 20th century though, as you observe.
Oh, and here's something interesting: in "Interpretation" there is an Appendix B, Focal Determinators, that has the following definition of a stellium.
"The case where four or more planets, at least two other than the Sun, Mercury and Venus, lie in one house or one sign, indicating a life emphasized in terms of the particular house or sign genius."
Hmm once again. Now why didn't Cunningham reference Jones as her precedent in that magazine article?
