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Surja76 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimming in tarot
Surja, the birds looks to me like the heraldic ones that you see on the shields of old families, particularly of Eastern Europe. Not exactly, but similar. I don't have any ideas for Deep Important Meanings for this card, myself. Not yet.
AHHHHH yes...... I have thought of raven sitting on skull.... waiting for the new victim.

Yes if I have seen the medieval helmet it is completely reasonable to consider that this is also heraldic bird. may be this magician was the representative of this old heraldic family before his death and this helmet belonged to him the same as the type of Bird he try to represent.
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Thirteen 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surja76
may be this magician was the representative of this old heraldic family before his death and this helmet belonged to him the same as the type of Bird he try to represent.
I like that idea! It certainly goes with the big empty castle, the expensive oriental rug used as a tablecloth and such. I can see this Magician as the last of his once proud line, the remains of his family's former glory around him. That could be his family's signet ring on his finger, and the helmet might have belonged to some powerful ancestor. Or, better yet for our story, some magical, family protector.

Aren't there some great stories like that? The family has a magical, but dark protector that no one dares summon. Generations later, the last "prince," who isn't a fighter and has no way to restore the family name, studies up on magic so that he can call forth the protector and regain his family's power?
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Surja76 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirteen
I like that idea! It certainly goes with the big empty castle, the expensive oriental rug used as a tablecloth and such. I can see this Magician as the last of his once proud line, the remains of his family's former glory around him. That could be his family's signet ring on his finger, and the helmet might have belonged to some powerful ancestor. Or, better yet for our story, some magical, family protector.

Aren't there some great stories like that? The family has a magical, but dark protector that no one dares summon. Generations later, the last "prince," who isn't a fighter and has no way to restore the family name, studies up on magic so that he can call forth the protector and regain his family's power?
AHHH.. It is interesting. I think we got this card.

May be that child in yellow ether is Soul of his ancestor this Magician wants to resurrect.
Helmet and the Child's embryo is the same like magician Hat and Rabbit in it.

It is known that souls can be resurrected by means of God's ability after the last God's Court.
This magician do not want to wait and used his own alchemical abilities to resurrect the person.
In ancient time Magic interference with the divine nature was considered like something forbidden, like something from Devil.
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Thirteen 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surja76
Helmet and the Child's embryo is the same like magician Hat and Rabbit in it.
I love that analogy! And I think you're right. I suspect that Karen and Alex meant exactly that and are laughing right now at the joke. Demon from the armored helmet instead of a rabbit from a hat! Brilliant! You can't get a more classic, Magician moment.

And it fits the meaning of the cards as well as its name! The idea that was in the Magician's head (the helmet) comes out, and it has the potential to be made real (smoke that's going to take some shape or other).

What I like is that what the Magician is getting smoke, not anything solid yet. I like it because it indicates the Magician's element (Air) and also because we feel that the smoke could take any shape; or it might vanish altogether. When we get the Magician card, we are only taking that first step to making an idea real. And in that first step it's still like a genie smoking out of a bottle--or a demon out of a helmet. We don't know what it's final shape will be, we don't even know if we're on the right track and it's going to take shape at all.

I suspect that we're also supposed to think of that saying, "Where there's smoke, there's fire!" This isn't always true, but if we rub two sticks together and get smoke, then maybe we're on our way to getting the fire. That smoke certainly tells our startled Magician that he's called forth something out of that helmet.
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Surja76 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirteen

What I like is that what the Magician is getting smoke, not anything solid yet. I like it because it indicates the Magician's element (Air) and also because we feel that the smoke could take any shape; or it might vanish altogether. When we get the Magician card, we are only taking that first step to making an idea real. And in that first step it's still like a genie smoking out of a bottle--or a demon out of a helmet. We don't know what it's final shape will be, we don't even know if we're on the right track and it's going to take shape at all.

I suspect that we're also supposed to think of that saying, "Where there's smoke, there's fire!" This isn't always true, but if we rub two sticks together and get smoke, then maybe we're on our way to getting the fire. That smoke certainly tells our startled Magician that he's called forth something out of that helmet.
So step by step we open each card. And at the and it seemed to be not so dark as at it was considered to me at the very beginning
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The initial impression is of the Magician not being there to perform magic as a performance... but as a lecture. I don't get that feeling from the setting he's in, but rather by how his table is set up and how he moves behind it. It reminds me of lab studies in college-- working with a group and having the teacher demonstrate at the front of the class. But, it also reminds me of old cadaver studies back in the 1800s, when little was known about the human body and "doctors" would stare and take notes.

There's a real neutrality in this card for me, though. He's been and learned through it all, but he also seems like a beginning student in it all. I don't feel like this Magician has an upper hand; he's simply neutral to me. I don't feel there's any ulterior motive to what he's doing; it's just a set of actions he's performing.

As for the tools at hand, they're so rich and delicious to me! Like, the most bare-bones representation of their respective suits and elements and they just feel right. It's as if the people watching this Magician would recognize what these items meant and their wealth and significance. And even as simple as they are, only the Magician can handle them all with confidence!

This is the first time I've really ever noticed the shape of the smoke on the left hand side. It's like a fist... almost. But what is it coming from? I don't know what that is. But certainly, the Magician has no fear of it and I think would utilize it without worry.

The setting in the cathedral room seems extremely exclusive to me. You had to earn your right to see the Magician do what he's going to do. It's a full moon outside which seems to further my stance on this; this is like a one-time presentation and one-time showing and you've better learn what you need to learn the first time!

But has the Magician done anything yet? No. But, whatever he's about to do is going to be awesome. Whatever energy or power or knowledge he's going to make known will be amazing... though not necessarily "good". Magic is magic to him, doesn't matter if it's good or bad. He just plays with all of it.
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Alisa13 
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Wow! Amazing discussion on this fellow. I'm seeing a totally different thing. The gold embroidery on his coat - they look like Egyptian figures. Weren't the Victorians into Egyptian things? Who was the Egyptian God of the Dead (Horus?) They were also into Alchemy and that flaming smoke vessel could be a retort. I stare and stare at the smoke and all I see is a large elongated sad face; something has been conjured that would have rather been left alone. This card reminds me of Aleister Crowley - immense power and focus (his eyes look determined). The candelabra & the number 3 - Holy Trinity - warped!
I like the references made about the black ring and the finger of destiny; it certainly looks like he is determined to create his own.
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daphne 
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1st edition vs 2nd edition Magician


Don`t you think that the smoke in the 1st edition is much more, deep, rich, orange, than in the Magician of the 2nd edition, where smoke is way lighter and less colorful?
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Thirteen 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa13 View Post
Wow! Amazing discussion on this fellow. I'm seeing a totally different thing. The gold embroidery on his coat - they look like Egyptian figures. Weren't the Victorians into Egyptian things? Who was the Egyptian God of the Dead (Horus?)
The early-to-mid 19th century was very into Egypt thanks to Napoleon march on it near the turn of the century. When he came back from Egypt he brought all sorts of goodies and pictures of the place, kindling a new fascination with it. Also, thanks to his soldiers, there was the discovery of the Rosetta stone which gave Victorians (and us!) the key to reading hieroglyphics.

The Golden Dawn Folk (Aleister Crowley included) were all into the Egyptian magic thing for their rituals and, yes, for tarot card symbolism.

Osiris was the god of the dead, however, Horus is the Egyptian version of Hermes (aka: Mercury, the planet of this card). Mercury was the "psychopomp" meaning he sometimes helped spirits find their way to and from the underworld. The Magician is certainly a card about being able to reach your hand into other worlds (into that magician's hat) and bring things out or put things back in. He's of our world, but he is able to make that connection of bringing something from that "other" place into our world. Manifesting the unseen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daphne View Post
Don`t you think that the smoke in the 1st edition is much more, deep, rich, orange, than in the Magician of the 2nd edition, where smoke is way lighter and less colorful?
The smoke isn't richer or more orange...but the thing coming out of the helmet is It's a glowing orange-yellow blob trying to push its way out like a bubble of molten lava! In this new version, I get the feeling that the Magician just lifted the beaver of the helmet (aka, the visor) after he did the spell (?) and has stepped back with a gasp as this molten power radiates out of it, overflowing, smoking .

And he's looking right at us as if to say, "uh-oh..."

I do read a clearer connection in this image between the skull, sword and the helmet--that the skull was the former owner of said helmet and sword. Our magician seems to be trying to resurrect this demon warrior. It also feels like the four suits are more on that table--the helmet as the "cup" the candelabra as the wand, the skull as the pentacle and, of course, the sword is still the sword--apt for a card which is the element of Air.
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daphne 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post

The smoke isn't richer or more orange...but the thing coming out of the helmet is It's a glowing orange-yellow blob trying to push its way out like a bubble of molten lava!
No smoke?! I see it as smoke and it looks much richer in 1st edition scans than in 2nd edition. That is why I asked...
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