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kwaw 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
For myself, I don't worry about elements. I ignore them. I still arrive at standard meanings for the suits by looking at the suit objects. For Wands, I picture wooden planks used to build a house. For Cups, food and drink as a means of sharing. For Swords, conflict and strategies. For Coins, value systems. I may be wrong about this but I doubt very much that people in the 15th through 19th centuries thought in terms of elements for the suits. I think that's a modern innovation, when esotericists began to look at the cards.
I agree the suit emblems themselves provide sufficient basis as per your examples -

OT: For anyone who may be interested however, the attribution of the four suits to other 'fours' is older than the speculations of modern esotericists - for example from Piscina Discorso, 1565:



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Last edited by kwaw; 02-12-2011 at 06:46.
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Old 02-12-2011     Top   #21
Carla 
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I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread and it's one of the best I've read on AT. The explanations are completely lucid--and trust me, if I got it the first time reading it, anyone can. Well done to Lee for such a great presentation of his ideas.

I've sat and copied them out by hand in my tarot notebook -- printing is too lazy. I never go back and read what I print. Copying it out makes me actually think about it!

This thread may change my entire way of reading tarot. I want to conduct an experiment. I want to do the same spread, but read it using three different methods:

1) Numerology + elemental suit (my usual way) (I see now I'm imposing two indirect references onto the cards doing this)

2) Pips-as-Trumps

3) Storytelling/intuitive (which might be Enrique's way, though I haven't read his threads yet)
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Old 06-08-2012     Top   #22
le_charior 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carla View Post
I want to conduct an experiment. I want to do the same spread, but read it using three different methods:

1) Numerology + elemental suit (my usual way) (I see now I'm imposing two indirect references onto the cards doing this)

2) Pips-as-Trumps

3) Storytelling/intuitive (which might be Enrique's way, though I haven't read his threads yet)
Sounds like a great experiment! There used to be a thread about three card readings in the TdM forum where people gave different readings for the same three cards with different methods which I enjoyed a lot (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=150872). Would be fascinating to see how you do it - maybe you could post it somewhere?



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Old 06-08-2012     Top   #23
Lee 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carla View Post
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread and it's one of the best I've read on AT. The explanations are completely lucid--and trust me, if I got it the first time reading it, anyone can. Well done to Lee for such a great presentation of his ideas.
Thanks Carla! I'm sometimes frustrated by being unable to absorb or comprehend some tarot books, so it pleases me to hear that someone finds my own writing to be clear.
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Old 06-08-2012     Top   #24
MR GREEN 
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?????

Last edited by MR GREEN; 13-10-2012 at 19:50. Reason: still trying to get the words right.
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Old 12-10-2012     Top   #25
BSwett 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carla View Post
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread and it's one of the best I've read on AT. The explanations are completely lucid--and trust me, if I got it the first time reading it, anyone can. Well done to Lee for such a great presentation of his ideas.

I've sat and copied them out by hand in my tarot notebook -- printing is too lazy. I never go back and read what I print. Copying it out makes me actually think about it!

This thread may change my entire way of reading tarot. I want to conduct an experiment. I want to do the same spread, but read it using three different methods:

1) Numerology + elemental suit (my usual way) (I see now I'm imposing two indirect references onto the cards doing this)

2) Pips-as-Trumps

3) Storytelling/intuitive (which might be Enrique's way, though I haven't read his threads yet)
Super interesting thread i'm reviving here! I recently read Lee's book for LoS Universal Marseille, and was really enjoying his light numerology approach, and now I find this….. which throws a curve ball at me…

Regardless, I agree with Carla. Lee is a very gifted teacher! His way of explaining things, and his choice of keywords makes it extremely easy to squeeze the juice out of the things he writes!

This is all going into my Tarot notebook! (Including Teomat's I-XX associations)

Paz y amor

Last edited by BSwett; 04-05-2013 at 04:00.
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Old 04-05-2013     Top   #26
frelkins 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaw View Post
I agree the suit emblems themselves provide sufficient basis as per your examples -

OT: For anyone who may be interested however, the attribution of the four suits to other 'fours' is older than the speculations of modern esotericists - for example from Piscina Discorso, 1565:

Not to be a boring pedant, but the first to link the classic elements to the suits for divination purposes was in fact Etteilla, in his second book on tarot. You can easily confirm this for yourselves. The Piscina piece doesn't explore the elements for divination, but rather ideas like "contentment," etc. Ficino, to whom Piscina refers, mentions the elements, but not in the context of divination nor for cards specifically. This leaves poor ol' Etteilla to take the blame. As usual.

Last edited by frelkins; 20-05-2013 at 16:05.
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Old 20-05-2013     Top   #27
swedishfish612 
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This thread has been fascinating and very helpful. I'm getting my first TdM deck today and was kind of wondering what in the heck I'd do about those pips. I didn't know how to approach them other than regurgitating my RWS knowledge. Now I have a jumping-off point, and I'm so grateful to those who shared knowledge in this thread!

I see that someone mentioned that the OP, Lee, has a book. Does anyone know the title or have his full name so I can search for it? Thanks!
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Old 13-08-2014     Top   #28
Lee 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swedishfish612 View Post
This thread has been fascinating and very helpful. I'm getting my first TdM deck today and was kind of wondering what in the heck I'd do about those pips. I didn't know how to approach them other than regurgitating my RWS knowledge. Now I have a jumping-off point, and I'm so grateful to those who shared knowledge in this thread!

I see that someone mentioned that the OP, Lee, has a book. Does anyone know the title or have his full name so I can search for it? Thanks!
Hello!

The book was available as part of the the Universal Marseille Tarot deck and book kit:

http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Mars...arseille+tarot

That kit seems to be no longer available on Amazon, so it looks as if it may be out of print.

The deck alone is still available and is sold with a LWB which contains excerpts from the book.
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Old 13-08-2014     Top   #29
ivanna 
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Maybe a silly question.
I'm starting to read pips with no book, which I am finding difficult, as I usually get blocked and have no idea about what the card meand.
I'm trying to learn the number associations, and for the number 10 you gave the keyword "adaptation".
Why?
The 10 can be the maximum expression of the suit, the consecution, son the 10 of coins would mean success related to the terrenal matters, abundance. Why adaptation?



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Old 05-09-2014     Top   #30
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