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alanemeriel 
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Interesting post, I will try to use. Thank you!
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Old 15-12-2014 Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #41
Elven 
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This is a great thread Lee - thank-you so much!
I love the simplicity of the Trump Pip association.
I started out with Numerology before Tarot - which made life a little easier with the TM's - but I was looking to enrich the meanings of the interpretations with a system instead of purely a marriage of numbers, elements, and intuition.
Just reading the correlations and key words opens up the imagination - a new light and a new enthusiasm.

Cheers
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Old 12-02-2015 Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #42
Hythlodaeus 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teomat View Post
I sometimes use the pip-trump method, but use trumps XI-XX for the reversed pips. And I think there CAN be a connection between the two (some of which can be very thought-provoking, almost as if they are meant to be connected):

I (Magician) and XI (Strength) - mental strength and physical strength, mind over matter/matter over mind etc
II and XII - knowledge and ignorance
III and XIII - life and death
IV and XIV - rigidity and fluidity
V and XV - speaks for itself!
VI and XVI - union and break-up
VII and XVII - war and peace
VIII and XVIII - clarity and confusion
IX and XIX - introvert and extrovert
X and XX - life's uncertainties and life choices

The Fool and World are special and stand alone. Not sure about how the courts play into this, but I do like the idea of it being a self-contained system and not reliant on 'outside' meanings (numerology, astrology etc).
This method is appealing in many ways! I like how it adds an upright/reversed or surface/shadow meaning to each of the pips.
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Old 25-01-2016 Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #43
Philistine 
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I view XI-XX as "doppelgangers" to the energy of I-X, as well. The whole self-containedness is satisfying and has informed my readings quite well. It surprises me more hasn't been explored about this inter-relatedness. I believe an excerpt from JMD's book was where I first encountered this idea.
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Michellehihi 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teomat View Post
I sometimes use the pip-trump method, but use trumps XI-XX for the reversed pips. And I think there CAN be a connection between the two (some of which can be very thought-provoking, almost as if they are meant to be connected):

I (Magician) and XI (Strength) - mental strength and physical strength, mind over matter/matter over mind etc
II and XII - knowledge and ignorance
III and XIII - life and death
IV and XIV - rigidity and fluidity
V and XV - speaks for itself!
VI and XVI - union and break-up
VII and XVII - war and peace
VIII and XVIII - clarity and confusion
IX and XIX - introvert and extrovert
X and XX - life's uncertainties and life choices

The Fool and World are special and stand alone. Not sure about how the courts play into this, but I do like the idea of it being a self-contained system and not reliant on 'outside' meanings (numerology, astrology etc).
This post is old but I found it very interesting, thank you!!! It really helped me to connect to the reversed pips.
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Spectre Made Flesh 
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If one doesn't do reversals but still wants to include more than numbers 1 to 10 when reading pips as trumps, perhaps if you get a pair of pip cards you could add them together? For instance, a 7 of Cups and a 9 of Cups together would be the equivalent 7+9=16, The Tower.
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Old 26-02-2016 Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #46
Lee 
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Over the last few days I've been doing several readings, experimenting with different pip methods.

I found that the best readings resulted from the pips-as-trumps method. However, not the pips-as-trumps scheme that I elaborated at the beginning of this thread. Instead, I found I obtained the best results from teomat's scheme which he posted on the first page of this thread, which assigns the numbers XI through XX to reversed pips.

Here is teomat's post in full:
Quote:
Originally Posted by teomat View Post
I sometimes use the pip-trump method, but use trumps XI-XX for the reversed pips. And I think there CAN be a connection between the two (some of which can be very thought-provoking, almost as if they are meant to be connected):

I (Magician) and XI (Strength) - mental strength and physical strength, mind over matter/matter over mind etc
II and XII - knowledge and ignorance
III and XIII - life and death
IV and XIV - rigidity and fluidity
V and XV - speaks for itself!
VI and XVI - union and break-up
VII and XVII - war and peace
VIII and XVIII - clarity and confusion
IX and XIX - introvert and extrovert
X and XX - life's uncertainties and life choices

The Fool and World are special and stand alone. Not sure about how the courts play into this, but I do like the idea of it being a self-contained system and not reliant on 'outside' meanings (numerology, astrology etc).
I made a few changes. First, I changed the keywords for I (Magician)/XI (Strength) to better correlate with my own understanding of those cards. I also changed the keywords for II's and III's in order to make them fit better with my Court assignments, as explained below.

Second, I included what I had earlier in the thread proposed for the courts, which I had arrived at by simply continuing the pip numbering, i.e. Page comes after X and is thus numbered XI, etc.:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Page = XI Strength
Knight = XII Hanged Man
Queen = XIII Death
King = XIV Temperance

In this scheme, the Page might symbolize a gentle, nonaggressive approach; the Knights, identification with a cause to the extent of being willing to sacrifice the self; Queens take on a Kali-like sharpness, intelligence, and willingness to use unsympathetic or unsentimental means; and the Kings would show a wisdom sort of like that of the ideal ruler in the Tao Te Ching: "For governing a country well, there is nothing better than moderation."
And for the reversed Courts, I followed teomat's logic that he used for the pips, and included the corresponding numbers, but this time the lower numbers, as so:

Upright Page = XI (Strength); Reversed Page = I (Magician)

In other words, the Page upright/reversed scheme (XI/I) would be the opposite of the Ace scheme (I/XI).

It may seem very complicated and confusing (at least it did for me at first), but it actually comes very naturally! Here is the entire scheme as I'm now using it:

Upright Ace: I (Magician) - Exerting willpower
Reversed Ace: XI (Strength) - Gentle persuasion

Upright II: II (Popess) - Quietude
Reversed II: XII (Hanged Man) - Sacrifice

Upright III: III (Empress) - Repose
Reversed III: XIII (Death) - Intensity

Upright IV: IV (Emperor) - Rigidity
Reversed IV: XIV (Temperance) - Fluidity

Upright V: V (Pope)
Reversed V: XV (Devil) - as teomat says, speaks for itself!

Upright VI: VI (Lovers) - Union
Reversed VI: XVI (Tower) - Break-up

Upright VII: VII (Chariot) - War
Reversed VII: XVII (Star) - Peace

Upright VIII: VIII (Justice) - Clarity
Reversed VIII: XVIII (Moon) - Confusion

Upright IX: IX (Hermit) - Introvert
Reversed IX: XIX (Sun) - Extrovert

Upright X: X (Wheel) - Life's uncertainties
Reversed X: XX (Judgement) - Life choices

Upright Page: XI (Strength) - Gentle persuasion
Reversed Page: I (Magician) - Exerting willpower

Upright Knight: XII (Hanged Man) - Sacrifice
Reversed Knight: II (Popess) - Quietude

Upright Queen: XIII (Death) - Intensity
Reversed Queen: III (Empress) - Repose

Upright King: XIV (Temperance) - Fluidity
Reversed King: IV (Emperor) - Rigidity

A note on the II's and Knights -- here I am contrasting the Knight's response to a challenging situation (a wild, committed, and probably pointless sacrifice) with the Popess's response (to quietly weather the storm). This also ties into the Hanged Man concept of sacrifice.

So, I have shamelessly appropriated and messed with teomat's system, hopefully he will not mind.

Last edited by Lee; 25-12-2016 at 14:52. Reason: Put in bold formatting
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Old 25-12-2016 Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #47
Barleywine 
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Thanks, Lee! I've added this to the previous material you posted. As is probably obvious by now, I love something new and complex to chew on.



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Lee 
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I'm not entirely satisfied with changing the Threes from teomat's Life/Death to Repose/Intensity, but I kind of boxed myself in by wanting to assign the Courts to XI, XII, XIII, and XIV. It seems a bit much to interpret the Queens as Death, which is why I went with Intensity instead (thinking of a Scorpio sort of energy which encompasses death and intensity).

If one wanted to abandon that scheme for the Courts and use some other scheme, or the standard modern tarot court interpretations, then one could go back to Life and Death for the Threes.

Last edited by Lee; 26-12-2016 at 05:37.
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teomat 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
So, I have shamelessly appropriated and messed with teomat's system, hopefully he will not mind.
Gosh, I don't mind in the slightest Lee! I'm glad you found it useful and have re-shaped it to suit your own reading style. It's what I do myself whenever I get drawn to the TdM - I'm always dabbling in different patterns and schemes for reading the cards, and merging different methods together. I came up with another one ages ago (http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=126948), but haven't really delved much further into it.

One day I'll get back into it again and try to flesh it out further, but I'm currently in a RWS-phase right now...
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Old 06-01-2017 Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #50
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