[Barleywine]

Originally Posted by Professor X

I think I am going to start working with the Enochian Alphabet to see what happens with it.
I have done the same thing with the Hebrew Alphabet and I have made great use of it, perhaps that can be a gateway for me to work with Enochian Magick.

You might also want to dig up Israel Regardie's Enochian Magic writing, which became Volume 10 of his "Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic." I was reading through it yesterday as a result of this thread and found that his long-in-development Enochian dictionary was included as an appendix. I'm not sure what the more experienced among us think of his contribution, but that alone seemed like a worthy endeavor. His discussion on the pronunciation of Enochian words - while acknowledging that there is no authoritative source for it - adheres to the awkward and cumbersome GD approach.

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by Barleywine

I was reading through it yesterday as a result of this thread and found that his long-in-development Enochian dictionary was included as an appendix. I'm not sure what the more experienced among us think of his contribution, but that alone seemed like a worthy endeavor.

I don't own the New Falcon version of Regardie's Golden Dawn book, so I can't really comment. But I do have a copy of Laycock's, Complete Enochian Dictionary. In his discussion of pronunciation he says the Golden Dawn method is definitely not how Dee and Kelley did it, but he adds that it is a practical system for coping with the consonant-clusters.

[Abrac]

To play Devil's advocate for a second, there's some evidence that Enochian's not even a natural language, but was contrived by Dee. In some ways it has more similarities to English than anything else. If you must use Encohian, I'd just pronounce it anyway you think best. But there are good reasons to use your native language.

For example, if you wanted to communicate with an angel, why wouldn't the angel be able to understand your native language? It is an angel after all. And if the angel wanted to communicate with you, one of two things would be necessary. It would either have to mystically make it possible for you to understand it, or it would have to already understand your native language. If it has the power to alter your mind so you can understand it, it stands to reason it should have the power to understand your native tongue.

Using Enochian might impress yourself or others, but I really don't think it matters to angels.

As far as scrying, the method I like best is a black mirror. You spray a piece of glass with black paint then after it dries, put it in a frame. You can decorate the frame in any number of ways that suit you.

[Barleywine]

I'm not a practitioner of Enochian magic, but my understanding of this sort of thing (the unique language, that is) from past investigation is that it is ideally intended to elevate - exalt, if you will - the awareness of the supplicant, or at least to take it out of the realm of the ordinary to another plane of operation. It might be seen as hubris to expect a celestial being to converse with you in your own language. But as a pragmatist I tend to see it your way. BTW, my understanding is that it was the skryer, Kelley, who received the alphabet and Dee who recorded it in the squares. When, after 14 months, they were done getting it all down, they really had no idea what practical use to put the information to; that was left to later generations. (Regardie's take on it.)

I've always intended to make a black mirror for skrying but haven't got to it yet. Scott Cunningham gave some interesting instructions for making one, including leaving it outdoors overnight in running water (or at the very least on the sill of an open window) under a Full Moon. That seems a bit fanciful, but I suspect it can't hurt. He also had some advice on what you might expect to see in one.

[Abrac]

Originally Posted by Barleywine

BTW, my understanding is that it was the skryer, Kelley, who received the alphabet and Dee who recorded it in the squares. When, after 14 months, they were done getting it all down, they really had no idea what practical use to put the information to; that was left to later generations. (Regardie's take on it.)

Hi Barleywine. That's the story we've been told at least.

On a totally unrelated note, I find it interesting that so many have relied on Regardie as far as the authenticity of Enochian. In his own words in The Golden Dawn (emphasis mine):

"Although no philologist, and without the least scientific knowledge of comparative languages, yet I have found the study of this Angelic or Enochian language an absorbing interest."

"In short, though as pure speculation, it is believed that the language in which these invocations are written are remnants of the tongue of the age-old Atlanteans."

"True, there are no means for the time being of proving this speculation, or of bringing forward the least convincing item of corroberation other than it is an instinctive or intuitive conviction."

While I admire Regardie's honesty, I have to wonder why so many occultists after him have bought his assertion that:

"The Angelic Secret Language, whatever it's origin, is a true language. It has, quite clearly, a syntax and grammar of its own..."

More recently, bona-fide linguists who have studied Enochian (Donald C. Laycock for one) have come away skeptical.

I agree that the keys' real value probably lies in their ability to produce a sort of trance state, similar to speaking in tongues. In such a state, a person might have an experience of communicating with angels. But, according to Dee, the calls were also translated into English by the angels, which would seem to indicate they did have the ability (according to Dee at least) to communicate in human language if they so chose.

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by Abrac

On a totally unrelated note, I find it interesting that so many have relied on Regardie as far as the authenticity of Enochian.

I fail to see how Regardie's personal opinions impact on the authenticity of Enochian. If he were trying to pass this off as fact that would be another story, but it's very clear that Regardie is merely speculating. You can take it or leave it.

To illustrate my point I'll "cherry pick" a couple of examples from your previous post.

Originally Posted by Abrac

there's some evidence that Enochian's not even a natural language, but was contrived by Dee. In some ways it has more similarities to English than anything else.

This is one among many theories about the Enochian language. As such it can be regarded as a factual statement.

Later in the same post you said:

Originally Posted by Abrac

Using Enochian might impress yourself or others, but I really don't think it matters to angels.

This is obviously your personal opinion. (Unless you would like to share with us how you know what matters to angels? ) Does this have an impact on the previous statement? Common sense says no because we can distinguish between the two statements. Of course if I had an axe to grind I might ignore commnon sense and say one bad apple spoils the whole barrel. But that would be a bit silly.

[Professor X]

Originally Posted by Abrac

I agree that the keys' real value probably lies in their ability to produce a sort of trance state, similar to speaking in tongues. In such a state, a person might have an experience of communicating with angels. But, according to Dee, the calls were also translated into English by the angels, which would seem to indicate they did have the ability (according to Dee at least) to communicate in human language if they so chose.

Whether Enochian was a actual working language or not is debatable but the success that people have had using it to scry with is beyond debate. Enochian without a doubt is one of the most powerful magical systems out there. It definitely should not be compared to speaking in tongues which generally leaves the person in a state where they are not in control of themselves. Perhaps it isnt the language of the Atlanteans like some believe but it definitely is a occult language which has been used by occultists with much success.

From what I seen from my limited use of the language is that it seems like something that was created to generate energies at certain frequencies at a very fast rate to the bridge the gap between the physical and etheric/astral. It is sort of like a 'Stargate' allowing you direct access to whatever section of the astral that you want to scry in which is why you can access whatever Aehtyr you wish to. You just recite the call ,dial in the name of the Aethyr and zap you are there almost instantly. This can be a good thing but it can be a bad thing if one is not ready for the that quick energy transmission which is why I am being careful with my interest in working with Enochian.

Note: My favorite Aethyr so far is the 16th one Lea. It is very powerful and motivating.
The accuracy of that particular Aethry in predicting future changes in the world is simply
astonishing. Crowley was ahead of his time by about 100 years, its no wonder he was misunderstood.

[Aeon418]

Crowley's view on the authenticity of Enochian is neatly summed up in the Confessions. It completely side steps all the intellectual stone-throwing that usually surrounds the subject.

Originally Posted by Aleister Crowley

The genuineness of these Keys, altogether apart from any critical observation, is guaranteed by the fact that anyone with the smallest capacity for Magick finds that they work.

[Professor X]

I am still reading the book and have made it to the 8th Aethyr.

Right now I have got my Golden Dawn book back out again and am going to study the section in the book that deals with the Enochian information. That book always seem to come in handy no matter how long it has been since you last used it.

I read it all before but I am going read the Enochian section again and study it throughly.

[foolMoon]

This book by Duquette seems quite good for the Enochian Magick.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enochian-Vis.../dp/1578633826