Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Books Free Tarot Readings Forum Community What's New

  Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Thoth Tarot > Golden Dawn Traditions

Welcome to the Aeclectic Tarot Forum!

We are the oldest and largest Tarot forum community on the Internet. If you have any questions about any aspect of Tarot or using your Tarot cards, or you just want to connect with other Tarot lovers, you've found the right place!

Registering your account is completely free, and allows you to post your thoughts, share readings, search, save threads, view extra boards and more.


  post a reply
 
Thread Tools
Barleywine 
Elder Jabberwock
Moderator
 
Barleywine's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 Jun 2011
Location: Where the wild things are
Posts: 8,569

Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor X View Post
I think I am going to start working with the Enochian Alphabet to see what happens with it.
I have done the same thing with the Hebrew Alphabet and I have made great use of it, perhaps that can be a gateway for me to work with Enochian Magick.
You might also want to dig up Israel Regardie's Enochian Magic writing, which became Volume 10 of his "Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic." I was reading through it yesterday as a result of this thread and found that his long-in-development Enochian dictionary was included as an appendix. I'm not sure what the more experienced among us think of his contribution, but that alone seemed like a worthy endeavor. His discussion on the pronunciation of Enochian words - while acknowledging that there is no authoritative source for it - adheres to the awkward and cumbersome GD approach.



__________________
"The heart has its reasons which reason does not understand." - Blaise Pascal

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Barleywine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012     Top   #11
Aeon418 
Citizen
 
Aeon418's Avatar
 
Join Date: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,270

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywine View Post
I was reading through it yesterday as a result of this thread and found that his long-in-development Enochian dictionary was included as an appendix. I'm not sure what the more experienced among us think of his contribution, but that alone seemed like a worthy endeavor.
I don't own the New Falcon version of Regardie's Golden Dawn book, so I can't really comment. But I do have a copy of Laycock's, Complete Enochian Dictionary. In his discussion of pronunciation he says the Golden Dawn method is definitely not how Dee and Kelley did it, but he adds that it is a practical system for coping with the consonant-clusters.



__________________
Consciousness, says the materialist, axe in hand, is a function of the brain. He has only re-formulated the old saying, “Your bodies are the temples of the Holy Ghost.”!
Aeon418 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012     Top   #12
Abrac 
Citizen
 
Join Date: 13 Aug 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,332

To play Devil's advocate for a second, there's some evidence that Enochian's not even a natural language, but was contrived by Dee. In some ways it has more similarities to English than anything else. If you must use Encohian, I'd just pronounce it anyway you think best. But there are good reasons to use your native language.

For example, if you wanted to communicate with an angel, why wouldn't the angel be able to understand your native language? It is an angel after all. And if the angel wanted to communicate with you, one of two things would be necessary. It would either have to mystically make it possible for you to understand it, or it would have to already understand your native language. If it has the power to alter your mind so you can understand it, it stands to reason it should have the power to understand your native tongue.

Using Enochian might impress yourself or others, but I really don't think it matters to angels.

As far as scrying, the method I like best is a black mirror. You spray a piece of glass with black paint then after it dries, put it in a frame. You can decorate the frame in any number of ways that suit you.
Abrac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012     Top   #13
Barleywine 
Elder Jabberwock
Moderator
 
Barleywine's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10 Jun 2011
Location: Where the wild things are
Posts: 8,569

I'm not a practitioner of Enochian magic, but my understanding of this sort of thing (the unique language, that is) from past investigation is that it is ideally intended to elevate - exalt, if you will - the awareness of the supplicant, or at least to take it out of the realm of the ordinary to another plane of operation. It might be seen as hubris to expect a celestial being to converse with you in your own language. But as a pragmatist I tend to see it your way. BTW, my understanding is that it was the skryer, Kelley, who received the alphabet and Dee who recorded it in the squares. When, after 14 months, they were done getting it all down, they really had no idea what practical use to put the information to; that was left to later generations. (Regardie's take on it.)

I've always intended to make a black mirror for skrying but haven't got to it yet. Scott Cunningham gave some interesting instructions for making one, including leaving it outdoors overnight in running water (or at the very least on the sill of an open window) under a Full Moon. That seems a bit fanciful, but I suspect it can't hurt. He also had some advice on what you might expect to see in one.



__________________
"The heart has its reasons which reason does not understand." - Blaise Pascal

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Last edited by Barleywine; 09-07-2012 at 22:02.
Barleywine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012     Top   #14
Abrac 
Citizen
 
Join Date: 13 Aug 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,332

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywine View Post
BTW, my understanding is that it was the skryer, Kelley, who received the alphabet and Dee who recorded it in the squares. When, after 14 months, they were done getting it all down, they really had no idea what practical use to put the information to; that was left to later generations. (Regardie's take on it.)
Hi Barleywine. That's the story we've been told at least.

On a totally unrelated note, I find it interesting that so many have relied on Regardie as far as the authenticity of Enochian. In his own words in The Golden Dawn (emphasis mine):
"Although no philologist, and without the least scientific knowledge of comparative languages, yet I have found the study of this Angelic or Enochian language an absorbing interest."
"In short, though as pure speculation, it is believed that the language in which these invocations are written are remnants of the tongue of the age-old Atlanteans."
"True, there are no means for the time being of proving this speculation, or of bringing forward the least convincing item of corroberation other than it is an instinctive or intuitive conviction."
While I admire Regardie's honesty, I have to wonder why so many occultists after him have bought his assertion that:
"The Angelic Secret Language, whatever it's origin, is a true language. It has, quite clearly, a syntax and grammar of its own..."
More recently, bona-fide linguists who have studied Enochian (Donald C. Laycock for one) have come away skeptical.

I agree that the keys' real value probably lies in their ability to produce a sort of trance state, similar to speaking in tongues. In such a state, a person might have an experience of communicating with angels. But, according to Dee, the calls were also translated into English by the angels, which would seem to indicate they did have the ability (according to Dee at least) to communicate in human language if they so chose.

Last edited by Abrac; 10-07-2012 at 04:11.
Abrac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012     Top   #15
Aeon418 
Citizen
 
Aeon418's Avatar
 
Join Date: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,270

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac View Post
On a totally unrelated note, I find it interesting that so many have relied on Regardie as far as the authenticity of Enochian.
I fail to see how Regardie's personal opinions impact on the authenticity of Enochian. If he were trying to pass this off as fact that would be another story, but it's very clear that Regardie is merely speculating. You can take it or leave it.

To illustrate my point I'll "cherry pick" a couple of examples from your previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
there's some evidence that Enochian's not even a natural language, but was contrived by Dee. In some ways it has more similarities to English than anything else.
This is one among many theories about the Enochian language. As such it can be regarded as a factual statement.

Later in the same post you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
Using Enochian might impress yourself or others, but I really don't think it matters to angels.
This is obviously your personal opinion. (Unless you would like to share with us how you know what matters to angels? ) Does this have an impact on the previous statement? Common sense says no because we can distinguish between the two statements. Of course if I had an axe to grind I might ignore commnon sense and say one bad apple spoils the whole barrel. But that would be a bit silly.



__________________
Consciousness, says the materialist, axe in hand, is a function of the brain. He has only re-formulated the old saying, “Your bodies are the temples of the Holy Ghost.”!
Aeon418 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012     Top   #16
Professor X 
Citizen
 
Professor X's Avatar
 
Join Date: 28 Oct 2009
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 318

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac View Post
I agree that the keys' real value probably lies in their ability to produce a sort of trance state, similar to speaking in tongues. In such a state, a person might have an experience of communicating with angels. But, according to Dee, the calls were also translated into English by the angels, which would seem to indicate they did have the ability (according to Dee at least) to communicate in human language if they so chose.
Whether Enochian was a actual working language or not is debatable but the success that people have had using it to scry with is beyond debate. Enochian without a doubt is one of the most powerful magical systems out there. It definitely should not be compared to speaking in tongues which generally leaves the person in a state where they are not in control of themselves. Perhaps it isnt the language of the Atlanteans like some believe but it definitely is a occult language which has been used by occultists with much success.

From what I seen from my limited use of the language is that it seems like something that was created to generate energies at certain frequencies at a very fast rate to the bridge the gap between the physical and etheric/astral. It is sort of like a 'Stargate' allowing you direct access to whatever section of the astral that you want to scry in which is why you can access whatever Aehtyr you wish to. You just recite the call ,dial in the name of the Aethyr and zap you are there almost instantly. This can be a good thing but it can be a bad thing if one is not ready for the that quick energy transmission which is why I am being careful with my interest in working with Enochian.

Note: My favorite Aethyr so far is the 16th one Lea. It is very powerful and motivating.
The accuracy of that particular Aethry in predicting future changes in the world is simply
astonishing. Crowley was ahead of his time by about 100 years, its no wonder he was misunderstood.

Last edited by Professor X; 10-07-2012 at 07:20.
Professor X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012     Top   #17
Aeon418 
Citizen
 
Aeon418's Avatar
 
Join Date: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,270

Crowley's view on the authenticity of Enochian is neatly summed up in the Confessions. It completely side steps all the intellectual stone-throwing that usually surrounds the subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleister Crowley
The genuineness of these Keys, altogether apart from any critical observation, is guaranteed by the fact that anyone with the smallest capacity for Magick finds that they work.



__________________
Consciousness, says the materialist, axe in hand, is a function of the brain. He has only re-formulated the old saying, “Your bodies are the temples of the Holy Ghost.”!
Aeon418 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012     Top   #18
Professor X 
Citizen
 
Professor X's Avatar
 
Join Date: 28 Oct 2009
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 318

I am still reading the book and have made it to the 8th Aethyr.

Right now I have got my Golden Dawn book back out again and am going to study the section in the book that deals with the Enochian information. That book always seem to come in handy no matter how long it has been since you last used it.

I read it all before but I am going read the Enochian section again and study it throughly.
Professor X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2012     Top   #19
foolMoon 
Citizen
 
foolMoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: 30 Apr 2014
Location: Garden of Light
Posts: 889

This book by Duquette seems quite good for the Enochian Magick.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enochian-Vis.../dp/1578633826



__________________
The universe, including the thinker, exists only by virtue of the thinker's thought. - Crowley, Berashith, Book Four.
foolMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-03-2016     Top   #20
  post a reply

Latest Threads in Tarot Decks

Latest Threads in Talking Tarot

Latest Threads in Using Tarot Cards



Go ad-free and support us too - upgrade your account to subscriber today

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off



All times are GMT +10. The time now is 20:24.

 


Tarot Forum Categories
· Tarot Decks
· Using Tarot Cards
· Tarot Trading
· Talking Tarot
· Reading Exchange
· Your Readings
· Tarot Games & Fun
· Tarot Deck Creation
· Marseilles
· Rider-Waite-Smith
· Thoth Tarot
· Tarot Study Groups
· Lenormand
· Oracles
· Divination
· Spirituality
· Chat
· New Members
· Advertisements
· Forum Help


Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Steampunk Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Angel Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Dragon Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Fantasy Decks
· Tarot Books
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Upcoming Decks
· Solandia's Top Ten
· Top Ten Decks
· List All Decks

Who is behind the Aeclectic Tarot Forum?

My name is Kate Hill (also known as Solandia) and I'm a Tarot reader, deck collector, and lifelong student of the beauty and diversity of Tarot cards.

I created Aeclectic in 1996 to share my passion for Tarot with the world, and started the forum in 2000 so others could share theirs too. Read more about me, contact me or connect in the forum.

  Contribute to Aeclectic

· Add your deck
· Advertise
· Write a review
· Join the community

  Aeclectic Tarot Resources

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.