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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackofWands View Post
Ah, but the thing is, there are primary sources available--not just secondary ones like the illustrious Regardie. You can actually read the writings of GD occultists (Mathers is my go-to, but there are others), which are sometimes dense but which provide clear information nonetheless.
Thank you for your info. Very useful indeed. I will look into these materials. Ideally I could do with a GD or A.A teacher nearby as well, who will guide me into the knowledge.
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Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
I had thought about this topic, and only conclusion I could get from it is that the traditional meanings of cards are not important. Meanings are subjective. They evolve and change through time and also between people and cultures.

So that's why it is important to meditate on the cards, as well as reading books as part of Tarot studies.

For instance, if whenever the Chariot card appeared in the spread, one made love to his partner, then to him the Chariot card gets meaning of sex.

The other point is that the reason why Golden Dawn society has linked the cards to the astrology, and cabala in their own way without much understandable explanation was, to

Just my 2 pence
Whoa there boy !

Just because YOU cant understand the explanation ..... have you read the GD books where it IS explained ? If so, and you didnt understand it .... did you do the preliminary study required to understand it ?

and if you didnt do that required previous work, are you really going to fault the GD and their 'attitude' of " exercise their authories ( ? sic ) to the members, saying this is what we decided to do, and you will follow as chartered by us. "

Even if they did, you make it sound like joining up to learn their viewpoint, or even using their deck is mandatory ???

Cant stand the heat ? Get out the kitchen !
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
I am not even sure if all the information available today about the GD is actually all there had been, or is it just a tiny tip of giant iceberg. When I read Regardie's GD book, it tells a lot about this is how you do it, and this is the association of that so forth and so fifth, but he isn't telling exactly in clear terms, why they are, they way they are, and where they all originate from. We might be just licking out the skin of a melon, and fooling ourselves - ah ha this is how the melon tastes.
If there are things you dont understand, or other sources and ref you need to find TO understand .... you can ask here.

Another problem is the publishing formats. 777 is a good example, some versions come with a full appendix, where Crowley attempts " tell a lot about this is how you do it, and this is the association of that so forth and so fifth, (and tries) telling exactly in clear terms, why they are, they way they are, and where they all originate from. "

But some versions dont have that - just tables showing " It is so ."

Its worse on line now , less and less versions have the full appendix , people want a fast fix, info, parrot fashion learning and no real explanations just quote and 'Crowley (or whoever) said so.'

A different dynamic with Book 4 ( or the more recent Liber Aba ) the beginning lists a lot of preliminary and background reading to be able to fully comprehend what follows. Yes the book may be for 'everyman' , but can one really get Crowley's modern take on psychology / magick, without the relevance that reading Agrippa gives ?

Anyway .... kudos to you for taking it further and WANTING explanations and reasons

But it isnt always the writers fault
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Whoa there boy !

Just because YOU cant understand the explanation ..... have you read the GD books where it IS explained ? If so, and you didnt understand it .... did you do the preliminary study required to understand it ?

and if you didnt do that required previous work, are you really going to fault the GD and their 'attitude' of " exercise their authories ( ? sic ) to the members, saying this is what we decided to do, and you will follow as chartered by us. "

Even if they did, you make it sound like joining up to learn their viewpoint, or even using their deck is mandatory ???

Where in Regardie's GD book explain details of the reasons and origins of the Thoth deck cards and Astrological associations by the GD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Cant stand the heat ? Get out the kitchen !
Wrong !
I love the heat.
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The more I study the astrological attributions in the GD system, the more they make sense.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
If there are things you dont understand, or other sources and ref you need to find TO understand .... you can ask here.

Another problem is the publishing formats. 777 is a good example, some versions come with a full appendix, where Crowley attempts " tell a lot about this is how you do it, and this is the association of that so forth and so fifth, (and tries) telling exactly in clear terms, why they are, they way they are, and where they all originate from. "

But some versions dont have that - just tables showing " It is so ."

Its worse on line now , less and less versions have the full appendix , people want a fast fix, info, parrot fashion learning and no real explanations just quote and 'Crowley (or whoever) said so.'

A different dynamic with Book 4 ( or the more recent Liber Aba ) the beginning lists a lot of preliminary and background reading to be able to fully comprehend what follows. Yes the book may be for 'everyman' , but can one really get Crowley's modern take on psychology / magick, without the relevance that reading Agrippa gives ?

Anyway .... kudos to you for taking it further and WANTING explanations and reasons

But it isnt always the writers fault
No I never said it is the writers fault. It was not about the Crowley specifically either.
It was about some associations of the cards and astrological signs that does not seem to give clear cut explanations why they are associated to each other, and then I drew some deductions about the system and the order from this situation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
The more I study the astrological attributions in the GD system, the more they make sense.
What is your understanding of the association of the Chariot card to the Cancer of the GD?
Could you please reiterate / outline if you have already posted it? Thanks.
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I see The Tower coming up...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
Where in Regardie's GD book explain details of the reasons and origins of the Thoth deck cards and Astrological associations by the GD?
Where does IR explain reasons for a Thoth deck in a GD book ?

I guess, I asked for that , inviting questions .

If you want to find out about Thoth and Crowley I would suggest you read Crowley, including the appendix to 777 which explains much of the schemes and associations used for the tarot.

If you want to understand the basis of GD tarot, you need a background in their system of Kabbalah, try starting with the general scheme outlined in the section where Tarot cards are used to display a system of associating them on the celestial sphere ..... in my book its an addendum to the tarot section.




Quote:
Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
Wrong !
I love the heat.
Good ... here is a compendium of GD works, a copy of MTP and 3 Books of Occult Philosophy by Cornelius Agrippa ..... get cookin' !
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