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ravenest 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smw View Post
That is therapy. I am feeling a bit confused by your distinction. As I understand it, depending on the type of therapy, development of full potential as you say above can be the aim. I think this is the case in Jungian analysis where the focus is individuation - the recovering of your true self (including unwanted repressed shadow aspects) and so being able to realise your own full potential and creativity.
Or, to put it simpler; how can I know my True Will if I dont know or understand my true self ?

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Originally Posted by smw View Post

I don't really know what counts as magickal practice...
Here is a start

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_..._the_pentagram

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Originally Posted by smw View Post

.However, as for instability...hmm..I have had my moments. I recently stayed in an old faded hotel in Hastings with a huge floor to ceiling mirror on the staircase. I was fascinated...what sort of things had this hotel seen.... I thought I would take some pics or try scrying, it felt like a portal. One of my children went to walk up the reflected stairs through the glass, it was that realistic.

When I checked the photos to see if anything interesting had shown up I was disappointed to see nothing. Then I noticed that there seemed to be something unpleasant about the reflection of me (taking the picture). When I enlarged it, the distortion of the glass had given me one horrible blackish staring eye, I was gripping my iphone like a mad demon woman and to finish off my thumb and scarf had blurred together to look like the head of a bald imp coming out of my chest...I pretended at the time that it was funny, but really I was a bit freaked out.
As it stands, that seems to veer to towards 'instability'. But if you delved into, scried into the mirror or photo and got information from that process that helped you to advance towards to your Will and purpose and expression, then I would call it a magical act. Some 'magical acts' however can have a 'phase' of instability in the process, whether they are magical or not depends on the outcome.
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the spell dudes... I don't know...perhaps boundaries can become blurry and it is harder to be sure what is real and what isn't at times for some people especially if they are having difficult times. For me they just sound like exploitative conmen... but then that is coming from someone who thinks she see's Crowleyite bald imps in her pics
Yeah, sound like exploitive con men to me too ! Actually, if you want that Crowley imp removed from your aura ... I can do that.... just send $400 and a blank video to ....



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I havent' really got to grips with the elements yet... I understand kind of superficially what you are saying... but not really, if that makes sense.
One simple way of understanding balancing the elements in yourself is to achieve an equal influence from ;

your connection to spirit, individuation, aspiration, inspiration, invocation.

your feelings and deep emotions, connections to unconscious, intuition, empathy, dreaming,

your rational abilities, reason, logic, mentation

abilites and methods of putting things the above qualifies innto practice and reality.


Mix fire and water, from that comes air ( steam ), contain and direct the air to achieve the work at hand.



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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #31
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Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Or, to put it simpler; how can I know my True Will if I dont know or understand my true self ?
ahh..ok think I am with you now

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Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
As it stands, that seems to veer to towards 'instability'. But if you delved into, scried into the mirror or photo and got information from that process that helped you to advance towards to your Will and purpose and expression, then I would call it a magical act. Some 'magical acts' however can have a 'phase' of instability in the process, whether they are magical or not depends on the outcome.
Yep.. that is what I thought...an unstable moment....though in my sane defence it isn't everyday that your pic distorts with a little imp head...argghhh....I couldn't face scrying that photo, though I will be returning to the hotel at some point again to visit family there. I am not sure though there is any valid purpose apart from a fascinated urge to explore....


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Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
yeah, sound like exploitive con men to me too ! Actually, if you want that Crowley imp removed from your aura ... I can do that.... just send $400 and a blank video to ....

That won't be necessary, thank you unless of course he has bigger brothers...


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Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
One simple way of understanding balancing the elements in yourself is to achieve an equal influence from ;

your connection to spirit, individuation, aspiration, inspiration, invocation.

your feelings and deep emotions, connections to unconscious, intuition, empathy, dreaming,

your rational abilities, reason, logic, mentation

abilites and methods of putting things the above qualifies innto practice and reality.


Mix fire and water, from that comes air ( steam ), contain and direct the air to achieve the work at hand.
Thank you Ravenest that looks a helpful way to understand it
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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #32
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Yep. But here the relativity relates to the ability to achieve the end result and not any mundane comparative reality. To the majority of 'scientific minded' and badly educated western materialists, anyone who even talks about magic may be considered unstable.

Not sure what you mean by a vacillating psyche, if you mean it can work in different modes, then yes. If you mean 'irresolute' , then I would say that psyche has a problem or a confused function. Certainly it should be evolving. Parts of it dont even seem to exist until other parts evolve and bring them forward so they can evolve too eg, the psychological personna, the Egyptian Akh.
Not just there are cases many times people who claim they are stable are actually unstable, and criteria of stability seems unclear, but also even AC seems thinking that stability is something constantly changing and evolving, which is the nature of psyche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIBER CL
Book 150
that Stability is Change, and Change Stability, that Being is Becoming, and Becoming Being, is the Key to the Golden Palace of this Law.



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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #33
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And there are many who would say Crowley himself was insane. He would certainly make for an interesting case study. I think any "mind altering," whether through ritual or drugs, is subject to wildly differing points of view. As ravenest said, for many simply practicing magick is a sure sign of insanity.

However, it does raise the question, can someone clinically insane carry out their Will? I seem to remember reading something, maybe by IAO131, about this. An example of a heroin addict was mentioned, and the question raised was whether they would be fulfilling their Will by quitting and whether the experience of addiction itself facilitated finding one's Will later on (by quitting).



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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #34
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I would think it depends on what you define Will as. I was thinking about definitions of Will, what is it? But I could not tell what exactly Will is, as there are different definitions of Will, e.g. for Schopenhauer, The World is Will - i.e. the will is the inner nature of the body as an appearance in time and space, he concluded that the inner reality of all material appearances is Will.

For Crowley, what is his exact definition of will? I wouldn't think it is simple as "wanting" feeling?



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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #35
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The other thing that I can never come to understanding is any mention of drugs relating to magick and magickal enlightments.

Surely one does not even need magick or rituals in order to get high or whatever intoxicating effects they are after, if they use drugs. Even if they claim they do, and actually engage in rituals or claimed magickal activities under the influence, it is then not true magick as such, but just acts of intoxication.

However, here we are only interested in achieving genuine mental awakening and increased sensitivity to divine knowledge via pure magick and traditional rituals alone in mundane life, hence we are needing books, readings and studies in these topics, and how the historical adepts got on with it in the past, I guess.



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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #36
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Not necessarily. Drugs can facilitate arriving at altered states but one must also know how to direct that and use it. Drugs have certainly been used in a variety of human cultures as part of rituals.



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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #37
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I know they have been, and even AC had toyed with it at one point I gather.

But I am strictly interested in the theories and mundane arm chair magick via books



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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Not necessarily. Drugs can facilitate arriving at altered states but one must also know how to direct that and use it.
I was once camping next to some friends at a festival who were tripping..they appeared to spend the entire evening searching for the toilets - returning and then going back again
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Old 07-04-2015     Top   #39
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Not just there are cases many times people who claim they are stable are actually unstable,
That is why - as good as lone work is - it is also good , at times, at least, to work with others, have some type of 'magical peer review', etc.
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and criteria of stability seems unclear, but also even AC seems thinking that stability is something constantly changing and evolving, which is the nature of psyche.
Ah ... I see the mix up now. You seem to think stability means 'fixed' and unmoving ? And not 'changing' ?

No. That Liber CL quote (and many others) show Crowley's nod to the Dao. Something I often refer to and an approach I personally use.

The stability is an inner fortitude, a balancing of forces, a stability that an orbiting body has.

The 'stability' and 'fixed nature' of the LDT ( Hara or 'Manipura Chakra' ) allows one to execute dynamic changing form;



or you just fall over



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Last edited by ravenest; 10-05-2015 at 09:59.
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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #40
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