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ravenest 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
And there are many who would say Crowley himself was insane. He would certainly make for an interesting case study. I think any "mind altering," whether through ritual or drugs, is subject to wildly differing points of view. As ravenest said, for many simply practicing magick is a sure sign of insanity.

However, it does raise the question, can someone clinically insane carry out their Will? I seem to remember reading something, maybe by IAO131, about this. An example of a heroin addict was mentioned, and the question raised was whether they would be fulfilling their Will by quitting and whether the experience of addiction itself facilitated finding one's Will later on (by quitting).
I dont see why being a heroin addict can not be someone's will. In most cases I dont think it would be, and it can work to erode the will , but if we come here to experience all sorts of experience ... and particularly if one holds the reincarnation belief , all experiences are valid.

I read a great story about how these thelemites kept saving their mate from heroin and helping him get off it and hassle etc. After about the 4th cycle he told them to F. off "Cant you see this is what I want to do ... its what I choose to do ." So they left him to it.

No, it might not have actually been his will .... but are we going to start judging and dictating what others True Will should be ?



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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #41
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I would think it depends on what you define Will as. I was thinking about definitions of Will, what is it? But I could not tell what exactly Will is, as there are different definitions of Will, e.g. for Schopenhauer, The World is Will - i.e. the will is the inner nature of the body as an appearance in time and space, he concluded that the inner reality of all material appearances is Will.

For Crowley, what is his exact definition of will? I wouldn't think it is simple as "wanting" feeling?
No ... not at all. Thats a big mistake a few seem to make from a superficial foray into Thelema.

In this arena there is a BIG distinction between 'Will' (philosophically), free will ( a 'gift' from the Christian God) and 'True Will' ( a la Thelema) .

Crowley's exact definition of will ? Off you go .... do the research ... it isnt that hard to find yourself, its all online nowadays .



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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #42
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Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
The other thing that I can never come to understanding is any mention of drugs relating to magick and magickal enlightments.

Surely one does not even need magick or rituals in order to get high or whatever intoxicating effects they are after, if they use drugs. Even if they claim they do, and actually engage in rituals or claimed magickal activities under the influence, it is then not true magick as such, but just acts of intoxication.

However, here we are only interested in achieving genuine mental awakening and increased sensitivity to divine knowledge via pure magick and traditional rituals alone in mundane life, hence we are needing books, readings and studies in these topics, and how the historical adepts got on with it in the past, I guess.
They got on with it, many of them , through hashish; Crowley, Blavatsky, P.B. Randolph, the precursor groups to the modern western traditions like the HBL , etc.

'Consciousness is chemical'.



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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #43
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Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
I know they have been, and even AC had toyed with it at one point I gather.

But I am strictly interested in the theories and mundane arm chair magick via books
I see .... then there is a LOT of this that you will have difficulty getting.

Why ?


Well, have you ever eaten a mangosteen ? No ? let me explain the taste to you .....



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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #44
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I was once camping next to some friends at a festival who were tripping..they appeared to spend the entire evening searching for the toilets - returning and then going back again
Talking to a guy tripping during a blackout at a festival at night time ... the field goes from total darkness and quiet to floodlights, stage light show and the DJ starts up again with deafening music.

Me; " Ah great! They fixed the power."

Tripper; " Huh ? What ?"

Me; " The power and lightshow and music has come back on."

Tripper; " Ohhh ? I hadn't realised it had gone off."



Of course, what people take when they are 'tripping' may have nothing to do with pure LSD (or any type of 'psychedelics' at all ! )

(Actually drugs alone may not do it for you, just like making a magical wand and waving it around might not do much.

SEt : setting: intention: state of mind: companions: preliminary research : etc.

It wont be magical unless you approach it magically



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Last edited by ravenest; 10-05-2015 at 10:00.
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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
No ... not at all. Thats a big mistake a few seem to make from a superficial foray into Thelema.

In this arena there is a BIG distinction between 'Will' (philosophically), free will ( a 'gift' from the Christian God) and 'True Will' ( a la Thelema) .

Crowley's exact definition of will ? Off you go .... do the research ... it isnt that hard to find yourself, its all online nowadays .
And there is a version from Eliphas Levi as well.

Well, I do not trust too much any information sourced from internet and online. Chances are many of them might have been written by anyone, who has no clue what they are writing about. I still go for good old printed books.



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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #46
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"Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength"

It doesn't matter who or what wrote it, there is no one definition of Will that suits everyone. While I respect ravenest and his experience in such matters, I certainly won't accept blindly his definition. Even if I did, our heroin addict won't necessarily accept ours. Even Crowley's definition isn't sacrosanct, because that's the whole point. Finding out what Will means is part of finding your own.

http://iao131.com/2014/02/26/top-10-...out-true-will/

http://iao131.com/



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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #47
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Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
They got on with it, many of them , through hashish; Crowley, Blavatsky, P.B. Randolph, the precursor groups to the modern western traditions like the HBL , etc.

'Consciousness is chemical'.
They did not have good book shops like Amazon either



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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
"Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength"

It doesn't matter who or what wrote it, there is no one definition of Will that suits everyone. While I respect ravenest and his experience in such matters, I certainly won't accept blindly his definition. Even if I did, our heroin addict won't necessarily accept ours. Even Crowley's definition isn't sacrosanct, because that's the whole point. Finding out what Will means is part of finding your own.

http://iao131.com/2014/02/26/top-10-...out-true-will/

http://iao131.com/
That's a good link clos. Thanks for sharing. Yep I am not ssaying 100% of online info is rotten, there are some exceptions of course.



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Old 08-04-2015     Top   #49
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LBRP


I want to encourage you to read Regardies GD instructions carefully the GD manual. The LBRP is but a foot note at the bottom of the Invoking pentagram ritual. Do not overly banish.
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Old 09-04-2015     Top   #50
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