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Nosgo 
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Thank you Zephiros, breaking down that court card by the astrological correspondances looks less intimidating and vague. And I totally get you on Phoebe because that Knight of cups is my court card! I guess I was too quickly intimidated by that switch of denomination (King-Knight) because I had associated elemental combination with maturity stage (Fire being more aged or mature than air). Are there any other deck than the Hermetic one where the deck creator adopt a similar system (with Fire of X element corresponds to Knight/Lord and Air to King/Prince)?

Barleywine, your astrological story method is really interesting and powerfull. I'm really impressed! I might need to grasp more astrological knowledge before I can do the same I guess. I just have some basic knowledge at the moment but I think I understand well how you were breaking down that court card. Thank you.
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Barleywine 
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I had another thought on how we might take a broader look at the correspondences. The Thoth Knight of Cups is the card I use as my own significator on the occasions when I use one. I picked it primarily because I'm a Cancer (Moon-ruled)/Capricorn (Saturn-ruled)/Scorpio (Mars-ruled) personality. It suggests a "three phases of development" approach to interpretation. Early on, the Moon in Aquarius decan fit me well; I was a big fan of Ayn Rand's "Objectivist" philosophy, and also of speculative fiction. Later on, I entered the Saturn in Pisces phase, where I had to conceal my mystical leanings because I worked in a very conservative industry. At this point in my life, I'm able to give Jupiter in Pisces full reign. So it brings an evolutionary aspect to the equation, a process of maturation.



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Zephyros 
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Fascinating Barleywine, I had never thought of it like that before. My own Court, the Prince of Discs, is a rather uncomfortable card, especially the first decan under which I was born. The next two don't seem too promising either.

Incicentally, Nosgo, I outline my own "non-astrological" way of dealing with astrology here, you might find it of some interest.



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Barleywine 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
Fascinating Barleywine, I had never thought of it like that before. My own Court, the Prince of Discs, is a rather uncomfortable card, especially the first decan under which I was born. The next two don't seem too promising either.
I agree that Venus in Aries is a rather barren combination; somewhere I read that it shows difficulty in finding love, perhaps only connecting later in life. Venus is in its detriment in the sign of Mars, so it's not on an equal footing with the aggressive side of the pairing; it's kind of throttled or "pinched off." The idea of "Completion" sounds good on the surface, but the limitation it also implies is its weakness. As the first expression of the Prince of Disks, I get the impression of toiling away in solitude, perhaps self-imposed isolation or loneliness. Mercury in Taurus is another uncomfortable match-up; Taurus likes smooth sailing, but Mercury keeps picking at the knots holding the sails in place, testing their soundness. It can't "leave well enough alone," which is a Taurean maxim par excellence. Moon in Taurus is actually a good place to wind up. Moon is exalted there and encourages increase but may not be especially discriminating about it: one might get rich or one might get fat with relatively equal likelihood. The movement in this decanic triplicity is from having a paucity of love to perhaps finding a materially gratifying - but stopgap - "love substitute," after critically examining all of the Venusian byways in between. The upside is that Moon in Taurus is excellent for bringing temporary success, and should be played to the hilt as often as needed.

Thanks for sharing, I love pulling these threads. Of course, none of this could be on the mark; I just started down this path today.



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Nosgo 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
Fascinating Barleywine, I had never thought of it like that before. My own Court, the Prince of Discs, is a rather uncomfortable card, especially the first decan under which I was born. The next two don't seem too promising either.

Incicentally, Nosgo, I outline my own "non-astrological" way of dealing with astrology here, you might find it of some interest.
Awww sweat... there's so much to read, love it! Thank you!
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Teheuti 
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Crowley took the Court Cards designations from the Golden Dawn system.

They decided that Knights on horses were far more active (Fire) than sitting Kings (Air). The pairs are Knight+Queen (Fire+Water) and Prince+Princess (Air+Earth).

Crowley also saw this as deriving from so many myths and fairytales like that of Oedipus, where a kingdom is languishing because of the illness, infertility, old age [or genetic inbreeding] of the King. An adventurer (fairytales: youngest son, etc.) arrives in town and rids the place of its ills (kills the monster, etc.). He marries the King's daughter and they become the new King and Queen [also infusing some vital, new DNA into the mix].

Their children are the Prince and Princess. The Prince is the new king-in-training (Air). He will inherit the position (Emperor) rather than achieving it through the fiery new energy and ability of the hero/adventurer.

I've added the DNA rationale that I think, intuitively, underlay so many of the old fairytales.

Trying to come up with an exact equation between the two systems can't really be done as the Marseilles King has been demoted to the Airy Prince and the Marseilles Knight has been elevated to the Fiery King.



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Richard 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosgo View Post
Here's my first question about this deck :

I am used to the RWS and Thoth court card system (Page/Prince/Queen/King and Princess/Prince/Queen/Knight) as well as their elemental correspondances but I don't really understand why in this deck the Fire part of court is representend by Knight and the Air part by King? Even the names seems to go in the opposite direction : Lords are closer to Kings than to Knights and Princes to Knights than to Kings (at least for me). Is it a printing error by manufacturers? If not is there something in the Regardie's Golden Dawn book which explain this change? And last, how do you interpret those cards? Like the Thoth court cards or differently?
Just to confuse things , in the Golden Dawn Temple Tarot, the Kings (seated in chariots) are Fire and the Princes (knights riding on horses) are Air. This, of course, is opposite the Elemental attributions of Book T. Otherwise, the Temple Tarot is strictly orthodox Golden Dawn.



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