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Grigori 
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The Rose Cross Ritual


http://www.polarissite.net/RoseCross.html

I've been thinking about the RCR, and wondering why does this ritual use the cross quarters (Southeast, Southwest, Northwest, and Northeast) rather than the true quarters (East, South, West, and North)?

And also wondering why so many rituals assume the room your working in can be rotated to fit the points of the compass?

In my room the cross quarters fall in the middle of each wall, and nowhere near the corners



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Old 05-03-2007     Top   #1
earthair 
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I'm bumping this to the top because I want to know too!
Plus I have another question- why design it with so much needless revisiting of 'done' directions when it's possible to go SE -> up and over to NW -> down and under back to SE -> along to SW -> up and over to NE -> down and under back to SW -> then sideways via NW, NE getting back to SE to finish?
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Old 16-03-2016     Top   #2
thoth1776 
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golden dawn kabbalah taort


www,psyche.com this is a grate site for beginners to the experts
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Old 05-06-2016     Top   #3
Barleywine 
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I came across an interesting discussion of this in Regardie's Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic:

"The elements vibrate between the Cardinal points for they have not an unchangeable abode therein, though they are alotted to the Four Quarters in their invocation in the Ceremonies of the First Order. This attribution is derived from the nature of the winds. For the Easterly wind is of the nature of Air more especially. The South wind bringeth into action the nature of Fire. West winds bring with them moisture and rain. North winds are cold and dry like Earth. The SW wind is violent and explosive - the mingling of the contrary elements of Fire and Water. The NW and SW winds are more harmonious, uniting the influence of the two active and passive elements.

Yet their natural position in the Zodiac is: Fire in the East, Earth in South, Air in West and Water in the North. Therefore they vibrate: Air between West and East. Fire between East and South. Water between North and West, Earth between South and North.

So that, if though invokest, it is better to look toward the position of the winds, since the Earth, ever whirling on her poles, is more subject to their influence."

Not sure who wrote this (probably Mathers, but the text just says he "approved" it), but it looks like he may have got some of the directions oddly cross-connected - SW wind is given two mentions. Anyway, the "winds" seem to align more with the ordinal directions than the cardinal ones. Perhaps this carried over into the RCR.



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Last edited by Barleywine; 05-06-2016 at 07:27.
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Old 05-06-2016     Top   #4
ravenest 
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What winds ? What the hell are they talking about ?

Some type of cosmic or spiritual wind ? A wind that invokes air ???

Winds .... pffft !


It is purely localised and means 'what is in that direction' ... what elemental forces are in the direction I am calling on , or calling up.

Yet, as it points out above - there are zodiacal 'directions' as well.

Some refer to the other arrangement as 'Kabbalistic directions' . Whatever that means .

Yes, these 'wind directions' do have an origin in kabbalah, but merely use a local environment scheme - Israel / Palestine , sea to the west, so winds from there are moist, The north winds are cool and dry (like earth) , because the north is colder there, as the south is warmer and dryer from that location and predominant winds from the east bring air.

So actually, we have 3 orders of arrangements; the cosmic or astrological, the natural or local and the 'traditional / magical' - which is someone else's natural or local being adopted ( which makes little sense to me .

If I am on the east coast of Australia, with the immensity of the Pacific ocean just out there , would I attribute water or cool moisture to the west .... where there is a giant dry mass of ancient earth ?

As far as the quarter positions go, its a fav thing in GD ..... the 'Equinox' can feel quiet intense for some ... its a change over of energies.

However if one doesn't already know all this (and have it in mind during the ritual ) I doubt it has little import or significance as I do not postulate any specific energies actually radiating out from the NE corner of my bedroom that I invoke and balance with energies radiating from (or through) the SW corner. IMO it is entirely a mental exercise in balancing forces.



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Old 05-06-2016     Top   #5
Barleywine 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
What winds ? What the hell are they talking about ?

Some type of cosmic or spiritual wind ? A wind that invokes air ???

Winds .... pffft !


It is purely localised and means 'what is in that direction' ... what elemental forces are in the direction I am calling on , or calling up.

Yet, as it points out above - there are zodiacal 'directions' as well.

Some refer to the other arrangement as 'Kabbalistic directions' . Whatever that means .

Yes, these 'wind directions' do have an origin in kabbalah, but merely use a local environment scheme - Israel / Palestine , sea to the west, so winds from there are moist, The north winds are cool and dry (like earth) , because the north is colder there, as the south is warmer and dryer from that location and predominant winds from the east bring air.

So actually, we have 3 orders of arrangements; the cosmic or astrological, the natural or local and the 'traditional / magical' - which is someone else's natural or local being adopted ( which makes little sense to me .

If I am on the east coast of Australia, with the immensity of the Pacific ocean just out there , would I attribute water or cool moisture to the west .... where there is a giant dry mass of ancient earth ?

As far as the quarter positions go, its a fav thing in GD ..... the 'Equinox' can feel quiet intense for some ... its a change over of energies.

However if one doesn't already know all this (and have it in mind during the ritual ) I doubt it has little import or significance as I do not postulate any specific energies actually radiating out from the NE corner of my bedroom that I invoke and balance with energies radiating from (or through) the SW corner. IMO it is entirely a mental exercise in balancing forces.
I'm with you there. When I was doing invocation, the room was skewed away from the cardinal ideal, so i just went with "sorta East," sorta South," etc. "A mental exercise in balancing forces" is a good way to put it.



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Last edited by Barleywine; 05-06-2016 at 10:54.
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Old 05-06-2016     Top   #6
ravenest 
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'sorta east '


The magically accepted convention seems to be 'magical east'

eg. if you have to set your temple up with altar in the east and one cant do that, then wherever the altar is (or object , direction, etc of focus is ) THAT 'becomes' the 'east' .

A bit like the Qibla .... Crowley's 'Thelemic magical east ' was Boleskine House

This had a little to do also with another Islamic practice , regularised Salat (prayer, salutation, adoration ) , that Crowley adapted ( he realised the significance of much of their 'psychological technology' ) eventually going from the 5 adorations to a more 'Egyptianised' Liber Resh.

http://paradoxosalpha.livejournal.com/82993.html



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Old 07-06-2016     Top   #7
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*pokes head around door*

But what about the order of doing the directions? Why all the revisiting of done bits?
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Old 07-06-2016     Top   #8
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Nostalgia ?



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Old 08-06-2016     Top   #9
earthair 
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[Probably a daft question] but- the way it's described as being done in a walled room and all this talk of corners, may have affected the outcomes for different people on the internet... but is this supposed to create a cube or a sphere or maybe a soft-rounded-edges-type of cube?
The first instructions I read which made proper sense to me were Kraig's, and if you do it like that you get a sphere which thanks to all the revisiting looks a bit like a PacMan
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Old 09-06-2016     Top   #10
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