Tarot of Marseilles help desk (Frequently Asked Questions): Non-History

Rusty Neon

Water, Dew, Tear Drops, Yods

twenty~one said:
I'm looking through my Camoin deck today, and I'm curious about the different shapes of the yods in the Ace of Swords, Ace of Wands, The Tower, The Moon, and The Sun. Some of them are raindrop-like, some are round, and the Aces....well, I don't know what shape you'd call those.

At any rate, would there be any significance to the various shapes? I can't think of any other than artistic variation, but I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts.

Twenty-one ... I suggest that you check out the thread that Temperance Angel had recently started about yods. If your question isn't answered in that thread, I'd suggest you post your question again in that thread, so as to keep all Yod questions together.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22051&highlight=yod
 

lunakasha

Lee said:
When you say you think of illustrated decks when you look at the Marseille pips, you bring up a very important point. I know some people on this forum think it's completely and outrageously wrong, but the fact of the matter is that there are people who read Marseille and other non-illustrated-pip decks in just this way. In my opinion there is nothing inferior about this method as opposed to the numerology method, because both involve arbitrarily assigning meanings to things which weren't designed to convey meanings.

Personally, for what it's worth, I find the number-plus-suit method by itself to be not particulary enjoyable. I can read in this way, but it's not as much fun as reading with pictures. Nevertheless I frequently experiment with it. I do find that looking at the flowers, etc. on the cards adds an interesting level, although it still feels like a stretch for me.

As to the very good question of why then would one read with the Marseille instead of an illustrated deck, the answer to this is that it can be an interesting exercise to have general meanings in mind for the card but not actually be looking at a picture. I've found it helpful, when reading this way, to call to mind the RWS picture just to remind me of what card it is, and then try to not keep the picture in mind but rather just a general meaning (for example, "sneakiness" for the 7 of Swords). By doing so, you may find that reading with the non-illustrated deck is limiting in some ways but freeing in others, because you can combine meanings and relate them to each other more freely than when you have the pictures in front of you.

THANK YOU Lee, for your wonderfully informative response to Lark's post....and thanks to Lark for posting in the first place, as I have felt similarly intrigued and frustrated in my efforts to find out more about the Marseille....

Lee: it seems that you have broken the "code of silence", so to speak, in terms of offering those who are new to the Marseille a comprehensive introduction--or at the very least an answer that makes sense--when asked about reading with non-illustrated pips. THANK YOU for that! :)

I have never worked with the Marseille, but thanks in part to all of the wonderful threads and discussions here at AT, I am getting more and more curious about this deck, its history, and most importantly, developing the skills to read effectively with it.

:) Luna
 

Lee

Thanks for the kind words, Luna! :)

I do think it's perfectly OK (and in my own case, preferable) to read non-illustrated-pips with RWS meanings, but I also think one should experiment with the numerology method too. You may try it once and not like it, but at least try it once. There are, after all, several members here who use this method exclusively, and for that reason alone it's worth trying.

-- Lee
 

lunakasha

Lee said:
...but I also think one should experiment with the numerology method too. You may try it once and not like it, but at least try it once. There are, after all, several members here who use this method exclusively, and for that reason alone it's worth trying.

-- Lee

Absolutely true, Lee! I think that if you don't at least attempt to read with the numerology, colors and suits (as many Marseille readers do), then you may be selling yourself short. For me, this is the purpose of studying the Marseille in the first place: because it is different from the (RWS) decks I am used to, I want to approach it differently and learn as much as I can about it.

On the other hand, as you mentioned, it is perfectly acceptable to use mental imagery of the RWS "meanings" or illustrations as a starting point...not only is it acceptable, but probably unavoidable, at least for the beginner trying to work with unillustrated pips...;)

Thanks again, Lee...for presenting the concept that there is no right or wrong way to learn. The important thing is to figure out the approach that works best for us on an individual basis...and have fun with the process!

:) Luna
 

TemperanceAngel

Hooray, I get to come and play in the History section :D :D :D

I was given a deck by one of my students, it used to be her Grandmas....she lives in Roma and the deck isn't even Tarot, it's playing cards and there are no Majors. The images remind me so much of Marseilles. Of course, a Marseilles expert would probably laugh their head off at that comment...

So I take this deck to work and get mt clients to pull a couple of cards from it. The deck looks as though it contains so much wisdom, and it does I am sure of it. When my clients take the cards they look at me so intently as though the explanation of the cards will be life changing.

I have no idea what the cards mean so it really is like working with the 'beginners mind', that's why I love them so much. And maybe if I learned more about numerology it would help.

I don't even know what the point of this is, but I suppose that even though my deck isn't Marseilles, it's similar and I have found this thread so very interesting. Hopefully I will come up with a question soon :) XTAX
 

Jewel-ry

I have been sat here a little while (several weeks in fact!) ploughing through the posts on both Majors and Minors, trying to glean every little snippet of information on the symbolism of the TdM cards. I know there have been several very good threads to help those that are new to TdM but on the other hand I am increasingly frustrated. I desperately want to know more and whilst I accept that everyone has their own interest and doesn't want to be babysitting me, could I please be thrown the odd snippet of information??? Please ??? Sometimes I think that those that know have decided to keep their information to themselves!

I accept that a lot of the symbolism is wrapped up in the more technical threads of the H&I but I could really do with some help. There are no books written in English and consequently when I start floundering I just recall my RWS meanings. I don't want to do that. I would really like to be able to recognise the differences between the two. I have tried to interpret these cards in my own way but is there no-one who can say 'well no Jewel-ry, you are totally on the wrong wavelength, or yes Jewel-ry that was a really good observation. I know there is no right or wrong in tarot but some of you have a much better idea than I do and I need to know if I am on track or off it.

I was going to suggest a study on the Majors but with more of a focus on the symbolism, the stance, the colours. I know we are all studying with different decks but I am sure we could all get something from it.

Please everyone don't take this personally, I don't have any gripes with anyone but sometimes it doesn't surprise me that other members steer well clear of the TdM decks!

Anyone else any ideas that could help me?

J :)
 

lunakasha

Hi Jewl-ry! (nice avatar, btw :) )

I read your post and found it very interesting....I have felt the same frustration myself, and have often wondered why there is not more information out there for those of us who are so anxious to learn more about the Marseille.

In particular, it would be WONDERFUL for a more experienced Marseille reader to share some of their "secrets" on how to read with unillustrated pips, as so many of us have been taught to read with RW-style decks and illustrated pips. It is indeed somewhat a deterrent for someone just starting out to have to weed through the many threads of H & I and then not being able to find what we are looking for...THE BASICS!!!

If anyone out there would be interested in sharing some of this information, perhaps start a new study group:

BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO READING WITH THE MARSEILLE

or something to that effect...;)

I am sure that such a study group would be most appreciated by those of interested in "joining the club" but who have no idea how to get in....and such a group might encourage many others who have been turned off by the deck (and/or lack of information) to give it another try....

Any takers??? Anyone???

:D Luna
 

Moonbow

Rusty

I'm working on feedback for your post to me about Historical decks (and Mari's post) - but I'm still researching the decks you mentioned and trying to find out where they can be purchased (which also doesn't seem straight forward from the UK). I just wanted you to know - because I do appreciate all the help you have been giving me, - I have been spending days reading everthing!

Thanks again

Moonbow*
 

Cerulean

Lee & JMD on suggested pip associations

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthrea...4&perpage=10&highlight=ones twos&pagenumber=1

And JMD's post with good suggestions: this link goes to the page with Meewah's post of numbers and associations, it also is interesting to think of numbers as she suggested. She's replying to another thread in the first few lines--it's the information further down on looking at 2 + 2, etc., that I am suggesting that you try:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3440&perpage=10&pagenumber=2

They are different than the threads that Rusty posted below. Best wishes.

Mari
 

Jewel-ry

Thanks Rusty,

I'm afraid I had a funny few minutes! I just get so frustrated. I think there is so much information out there and I just don't know how to get my hands on it! I agree the minor arcana are the more difficult but I seem to be struggling all round at the moment and I dont want to give up on it.

I really appreciate everything you are doing to help us 'newbies'. Keeping all those new threads going and contributing to the new threads started by people like me must drive you mad too! You have a lot of patience and I am grateful.

J :)