Cara Jackson
Hi there, ws wondering what all the symbols were on his belt and on his 'skirt' (which I presume is some metal Gladiator type armour?).
Many thanks x Cara
Many thanks x Cara
RWS Charioteer - what are his symbols on him?
brightcrazystar
It is the belt of the zodiac, but it is blinded. It is the chaldean, which is why it starts with the Leo glyph.
Remember, A.E. Waite was under strict oaths to the R.R. et A.C., second order to the Golden Dawn, which obscured the imagery on some of the cards, "for by names and images are powers awakened and re-awakened."
Remember, A.E. Waite was under strict oaths to the R.R. et A.C., second order to the Golden Dawn, which obscured the imagery on some of the cards, "for by names and images are powers awakened and re-awakened."
Cara Jackson
Thanks bright crazy star - feel like changing my name now
as yours is SOOO good!
Big thanks Cara
as yours is SOOO good!
Big thanks Cara
Abrac
The symbols on his "skirt" look like they might be sigils made from geomantic figures. Geomancy wa an important part of the Golden Dawn curriculum. The student was taught to use his or her imagination to create different sigils by connecting the dots in unique ways. The geomantic figures had astrological correspondences and planetary rulers. The Golden Dawn Tarot Cups and Pentacles are are arranged in the shape of geomantic figures. Israel Regardie's Golden Dawn book has some information on the subject and has one picture with symbols that look very much like some of the ones on the Charioteer.
brightcrazystar
hmm, Which geomantic symbols do you think they may be sigils derived from?
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/images/cattan-figureslist.jpg
They are addressed in pge 64 of this presentation of the Golden Dawn Cipher Manuscript. It would be neat it you were right, and just as easily reinforce that they are a representation of the astrological belt of the zodiac.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7869584/the-Cipher-Manuscripts-of-the-Golden-Dawn
but it looks clearly like "generic" astro wingdings to me... the kind of stuff in all the grimoires of old by people who were paid to translate or create images but had no knowledge of the intitiated mysteries. This was pretty much what Pamela Coleman Smith was working with, a half-idea of what she was commisioned for.
As for Regardie, he was representing a offshoot of Golden Dawn called Stella Matutina. This was founded by James Brodes-Innes and Robert Felkin - people who had a schism over essential qabalistic understandings with A.E. Waite. Regardie is not a person to represent A.E. Waite's intent or understanding, and was never an Adept of the "same" Golden Dawn or any other, until honorarily awarded the title after being remitted to the Order because frankly, Stella Matutina was a blip on the map until he published their mysteries to preserve them. Crowley and many others including Waite all agreed they are not the same. This is about one of the few things Crowley and Waite agreed on!
I have experienced these and other variants of the Grades of the Initiates. I have seen papers not published, some in private collections belonging to no Order. Stella Matutina is a path of Initiation, but it is different, though heavily derived. They are part of the expansion of the Golden Dawn into new Orders, but not the authority on it. Respect to the Order.
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/images/cattan-figureslist.jpg
They are addressed in pge 64 of this presentation of the Golden Dawn Cipher Manuscript. It would be neat it you were right, and just as easily reinforce that they are a representation of the astrological belt of the zodiac.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7869584/the-Cipher-Manuscripts-of-the-Golden-Dawn
but it looks clearly like "generic" astro wingdings to me... the kind of stuff in all the grimoires of old by people who were paid to translate or create images but had no knowledge of the intitiated mysteries. This was pretty much what Pamela Coleman Smith was working with, a half-idea of what she was commisioned for.
As for Regardie, he was representing a offshoot of Golden Dawn called Stella Matutina. This was founded by James Brodes-Innes and Robert Felkin - people who had a schism over essential qabalistic understandings with A.E. Waite. Regardie is not a person to represent A.E. Waite's intent or understanding, and was never an Adept of the "same" Golden Dawn or any other, until honorarily awarded the title after being remitted to the Order because frankly, Stella Matutina was a blip on the map until he published their mysteries to preserve them. Crowley and many others including Waite all agreed they are not the same. This is about one of the few things Crowley and Waite agreed on!
I have experienced these and other variants of the Grades of the Initiates. I have seen papers not published, some in private collections belonging to no Order. Stella Matutina is a path of Initiation, but it is different, though heavily derived. They are part of the expansion of the Golden Dawn into new Orders, but not the authority on it. Respect to the Order.
lucifall
brightcrazystar said:
She produced world most appreciated deck in the world....
just because she did not understand what she did,you suggest?
mmmm
My dearest Fool: Pamela!!
In theory it all might sound well,Brightcrazystar, what you all suggest, but please respect the artist, as artists really look BEYOND Theory!
That is what I know, and understand ,as an very humble initiate in Art and whatever What!
In respect for the lifeforce she created for so many people
I only want to say:THANKS PAM!
Luci
brightcrazystar
I was not saying she was clueless, I meant simply that she was not a member of the Second Order R.R. et A.C., even though she was a Member of the Golden Dawn. A.E. Waite was using papers to produce this deck that he was not sharing with her, because they were confidential.
This is why the images were produced in black and white with comic coloring, because the coloring is supposed to be different according to the "Yetziratic Notebook" of the second order (most of which Crowley published in 777), which includes the principle ideas of the images of the major arcanum, and the color keys.
Pam was mostly limited to a color palette possibly chosen by , and she did alot of work "mobilizing" the pip cards of the suits. Mainly because this was not covered.
These were the images used before were more similiar to these, but they were illustrated by Mather's wife unlike this deck.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/golden-dawn/index.shtml
Soror Quod Tibi Id Allis made an immeasurable contribution to the Great Work, and I was not making light of it. Forgive me, if it seemed I was. I simply mean she was not in possession of instruction that A.E. Waite was using as a basis for this deck.
This is why the images were produced in black and white with comic coloring, because the coloring is supposed to be different according to the "Yetziratic Notebook" of the second order (most of which Crowley published in 777), which includes the principle ideas of the images of the major arcanum, and the color keys.
Pam was mostly limited to a color palette possibly chosen by , and she did alot of work "mobilizing" the pip cards of the suits. Mainly because this was not covered.
These were the images used before were more similiar to these, but they were illustrated by Mather's wife unlike this deck.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/golden-dawn/index.shtml
Soror Quod Tibi Id Allis made an immeasurable contribution to the Great Work, and I was not making light of it. Forgive me, if it seemed I was. I simply mean she was not in possession of instruction that A.E. Waite was using as a basis for this deck.
