nisaba
Ignorant question from not a huge oracle user here: what's the technical difference between a Lenormand and a Sybilla deck?
Sybilla/Lenormand
kalliope
Err, I'm no expert, but I'll describe them as best I can:
The Lenormand deck is a standard set of 36 cards always with the same symbols for each number, no titles. The symbols are things like Clover, Bear, Star, Fox, Snake, Anchor, Scythe, Heart. Traditionally I think they were mostly read in a Grand Tableau of all 36 cards, and with certain methods like distance and grammar-like card combining, although shorter spreads are used too, like the lines of 5 or 9, or the 3x3. Reverals aren't used.
The Sybillas/Sibillas, whether Italian or French, seem to be all 52 card decks, one for each of the playing cards. The cards aren't numbered (although they do have numbers on them that I think are supposed to be gambling numbers,) but have straightforward titles like Money, Thief, Servant, Soldier, Regret, Melancholy, Married Woman, Jealousy, Misfortune, Enemy, Love, Hope, Joy, Surprise, Luck, Wedding, Priest, Doctor, etc. They usually have a couple of additional words or meanings listed. There isn't a lot available about them in English, but I believe they are usually read in smaller spreads, and reversals are used. They're fun to play with!
The Lenormand deck is a standard set of 36 cards always with the same symbols for each number, no titles. The symbols are things like Clover, Bear, Star, Fox, Snake, Anchor, Scythe, Heart. Traditionally I think they were mostly read in a Grand Tableau of all 36 cards, and with certain methods like distance and grammar-like card combining, although shorter spreads are used too, like the lines of 5 or 9, or the 3x3. Reverals aren't used.
The Sybillas/Sibillas, whether Italian or French, seem to be all 52 card decks, one for each of the playing cards. The cards aren't numbered (although they do have numbers on them that I think are supposed to be gambling numbers,) but have straightforward titles like Money, Thief, Servant, Soldier, Regret, Melancholy, Married Woman, Jealousy, Misfortune, Enemy, Love, Hope, Joy, Surprise, Luck, Wedding, Priest, Doctor, etc. They usually have a couple of additional words or meanings listed. There isn't a lot available about them in English, but I believe they are usually read in smaller spreads, and reversals are used. They're fun to play with!
nisaba
Thank you.
Lady Freya
yes, but the sibillas are numbered, on the top right hand corner. There is actually a lot of information about them in English that has just been released in a book at
http://www.italiancartomancy.com/
there you can also find videos of all the cards.... I find them a lot better than the Lenormand, but that is just me....
http://www.italiancartomancy.com/
there you can also find videos of all the cards.... I find them a lot better than the Lenormand, but that is just me....
kalliope
I'd love it if someone with more knowledge of the historical decks would pipe up. None of my Italian decks have 1-52 numbering, and it doesn't sound like people refer to the cards by that sort of numbering in conversation since many decks don't have it. From what I've seen they refer instead they to the playing card and title. If you check out the scans at http://www.itarocchidigabriella.it/sibille.htm you'll see that only one of the decks appears to have those numbers in the upper right, not even the edition of La Vera Sibilla that they show. So anyway, it's confusing! But at least you can see where I was coming from.
The only deck I have that is numbered from 1-52 is the one with French original titles, and that deck doesn't match the titles-playing card correspondences like the rest of them. (For instance, the Ace
is Retard(Delay) instead of Sorrow/Regret, and 2 is Joueurs(Gamblers) instead of Old Woman/Visit.) ETA: In addition, the numbering isn't even the same as on the Italian Sibillas!
I'll check out the rest of the videos on the page you linked, thanks. I am interested in that book, but at almost $50 it's not something I'll be getting any time soon!
I'll post a picture comparing some cards from the decks that I have in a little while, just for kicks, since they're fun to see.
The only deck I have that is numbered from 1-52 is the one with French original titles, and that deck doesn't match the titles-playing card correspondences like the rest of them. (For instance, the Ace
is Retard(Delay) instead of Sorrow/Regret, and 2 is Joueurs(Gamblers) instead of Old Woman/Visit.) ETA: In addition, the numbering isn't even the same as on the Italian Sibillas!I'll check out the rest of the videos on the page you linked, thanks. I am interested in that book, but at almost $50 it's not something I'll be getting any time soon!
I'll post a picture comparing some cards from the decks that I have in a little while, just for kicks, since they're fun to see.
Lady Freya
that would be great thanks!! I think the sibillas are numbered from 1 to 13, each suit, I am not sure about the grand jeu Lenormand (if I am spelling this correctly), maybe that is the deck with cards from 1 to 52?
I have just watched the videos, I think they are offering a discount for youtube viewers if I remember correctly from the video I watched yesterday... but I can't remember which one it was.
The book is really well done IMO and worth the money, before I didn't really understand this deck of cards from the few keywords given here and there online, you don't get to know the cards the same way, but in the book you are being taught by an Italian cartomancer. I got two copies, one to read and mark the other to keep on my bookshelf... it was a nice birthday present
I have just watched the videos, I think they are offering a discount for youtube viewers if I remember correctly from the video I watched yesterday... but I can't remember which one it was.
The book is really well done IMO and worth the money, before I didn't really understand this deck of cards from the few keywords given here and there online, you don't get to know the cards the same way, but in the book you are being taught by an Italian cartomancer. I got two copies, one to read and mark the other to keep on my bookshelf... it was a nice birthday present
kalliope
Okay, here are a couple of pics. I pulled the same playing cards across those w/ the inserts, and in the one without, I pulled the same title. As you can see, the French deck at the bottom has different titles for the respective playing cards. (Sometimes you can find them elsewhere in the deck, and in other cases the cards don't appear in the deck at all and are replaced with other titles.) I included a closeup of one of the cards across the decks so you can see more detail. The numbers in the top right of the French deck don't go in any logical order that I can see, so if you put the cards in numerical order the playing card suits would be all jumbled up. The Italian decks appear to have numbering that follows the suits (for instance if you look at the spades here, you'll see that they proceed as numbers 40, 41, 42, etc. for the A, 2, 3.)
The decks I show are:
--i misteri della Sibilla by Dal Negro
--La Magica Sibilla by Dal Negro
--Gypsy Oracle Cards (aka the Sibilla Della Zingara by Lo Scarabeo)
--Sibilla Oracle by Lo Scarabeo
The Grand Jeu Lenormand is a different deck altogether. (see here for pics)
It's good to know you recommend the book. Maybe after I make more headway into my Lenormand studies I'll treat myself to it later in the year. Too many books on the wishlist!
, 2, 3.)The decks I show are:
--i misteri della Sibilla by Dal Negro
--La Magica Sibilla by Dal Negro
--Gypsy Oracle Cards (aka the Sibilla Della Zingara by Lo Scarabeo)
--Sibilla Oracle by Lo Scarabeo
The Grand Jeu Lenormand is a different deck altogether. (see here for pics)
It's good to know you recommend the book. Maybe after I make more headway into my Lenormand studies I'll treat myself to it later in the year. Too many books on the wishlist!
Attachments
Lady Freya
wow thank you!!! The watercolor deck looks really nice... do you use it often?
kalliope
It is nice! That one is the i misteri della Sibilla, just to be clear. I just noticed that in the 1st photo I had the boxes in the wrong place! The i misteri and Magica were switched, but it's correct in the 2nd photo, and really, it's pretty obvious if you look at the boxes closely. 
Sorry about the error!
I go through phases when I will do daily draws with either that one or the Magica (there's a thread around here somewhere in which a few of us did sibilla dailies.) The sibillas give me the most accurate daily draws of any deck I've tried, but I haven't really used them much for readings more complicated than that, or for direct questions. I've only had the translated keywords from the cards themselves to work with, and my own way of putting them together. (I uploaded a PDF with the translated keywords in a post somewhere here, too.)
Sorry about the error!I go through phases when I will do daily draws with either that one or the Magica (there's a thread around here somewhere in which a few of us did sibilla dailies.) The sibillas give me the most accurate daily draws of any deck I've tried, but I haven't really used them much for readings more complicated than that, or for direct questions. I've only had the translated keywords from the cards themselves to work with, and my own way of putting them together. (I uploaded a PDF with the translated keywords in a post somewhere here, too.)
kalliope
I found a link in my Evernote sibilla notebook to a helpful blog post about the sibillas by AndyBC. He summarizes the similarities and differences between the Italian Sibillas and the related French decks, which are called the Parlour Sibyls.
