The fool's journey -- men only??

Well, I'm inspired to post this after reading the thread on "where are all the brown people," and I would love to know what other people think about these ideas I'm about to talk about.

I am curious if people think there is a male slant to the story of the fool. In other words, is the quest for spiritual enlightenment experienced differently by men and women?

As a male, I am inclined to think that there is some difference. First, I must say that every book or story or archetype about a person undergoing spiritual enlightenment has focused on a man and not a woman. Jesus, Mohammed, the Buddha, Krishna are the male spiritual archetypes that come readily to mind. But even in stories -- Herman Hesse's Siddhartha, even Luke Skywalker! -- are all fictional characters who undergo a spiritual transformation and attain some universal connection. They have all been men, and the women in all these stories (Mary Magdalene, or the Virgin Mary, or Khadija, or Princess Leia, lol) have typically been downplayed.

Second, the Tarot itself differentiates between "male" and "female" energies, or at least that is my intellectual impression. The Magician versus the Priestess, the Emperor versus the Empress. The Star and the World are women, the Hanged Man is, well, a man. This differentiation between male and female seems to mirror other traditions that do the same thing -- yin and yang, shiva and shakti, even Catholic ideas of Jesus and Mary. So some distinction is being made, which may alter the path of spiritual growth for either sex.

Third, my conclusion after reading about spiritual development is that it is an inner journey of self-discovery, bettering one's relationship with other people and the self. But I would wager that this whole process has historically been easier for men than for women. It is men who could leave their wives to search for happiness (like the Buddha) or have not been constrained by social norms in ways that women have been throughout history. Given the division between men and women (and the concurrent oppression of women) that has gone on since civilization seemingly began, surely women might have different (and perhaps more difficult) challenges?

And finally, I think it is important to mention that women can have one special relationship that a man can never have -- the ability to carry and bear a child. The fool's path seems to be a loner path, where you break off your old ties so as to truly discover yourself. How does motherhood fit into the fool's journey? It doesn't seem to, yet it is something that most women end up experiencing.

Given all of this, I wonder if maybe a woman's fool's journey has yet to be fully articulated. Or has it been?? What do women think of the fool's journey?

theo

One distinction that I see between foolish men and foolish women. Women invariably pay a heavier price for their foolishness. Women, methinks, accept and remedy the consequences of their acts at a far higher rate then do men.

Men, as a general and stereotyped rule, tend to ignore the fallout of their foolish behavior. Our women are always there, picking us up, and nursing our bruised egos.

Perhaps the archetype is more on the mark than we think. What a pathetic lot we are.

Hi TheoMo ~

What a thoughtful question!

The Fool in the Ancestral Path Tarot is a young woman, and in the Goddess Tarot she is a female Goddess whose name I can't remember right now.

For me, there have always been plenty of female role models and stories that I admire. (I don't mind the male ones either). For a long time most history was written and told from the male point of view but that has changed a lot now. It was also written from the white ethnocentric point of view and that is changing too.

I think a lot depends on how you see the Fool's story. It doesn't matter to me that Fool is mainly depicted as male in most tarot decks. We all have male and female aspects of personality and most Fools look a little androgynous.

We can all begin again at any time, and leave the mistakes of the past behind. Sometimes the Fool seems like the Soul in its most innocent form, that is all, and that does not have a lot to do with gender.

Moongold

I always thought of the Fool as an androgynous figure. Same with the Magician. Not sure why. If I knew more about mythology, mysticism and such, I could probably come up with a nifty philosophical explanation for it.

Thanks all for your responses. Moongold, you mentioned female role models -- I would love to read some stories with female central characters, if you could name some that would be awesome.

I have always thought of the Fool as androgynous as well, but I have always wondered whether female spiritual development takes a different path than male spiritual development. I think about Jung's conception of the "anima" and "animus" -- the idea that men have female aspects they do not integrate, and that women have male aspects. The Fool's journey, for me at least, is a process of integrating these aspects, so perhaps women's experience with their animus involves a different psychological process than a man's experience with their anima...? just thinking out loud really.

Interesting question, and I appreciate your asking it.

I personally don't think there's any difference in a woman's spiritual path versus a man's, at least not inwardly or essentially. Of course, societal standards and prejudices might make it harder for women than men to be taken seriously in spiritual communities, but that's a different matter.

Having observed the changing face of Zen as it translates to American culture, I've seen many women living and practicing in Zen centers. Zen is generally a very vigorous, macho form of spiritual training. But women take to it without a problem. Some of the most impressive "monks" I know are female. When it comes to training the mind and the will, I think fundamentally, these things are beyond gender.

However, I think men and women may have slightly different attitudes on the spiritual path. I hate to start gender-typing, and know it's flawed, but I can say that it seems that men are more prone to taking themselves too seriously, while women are usually a bit more gentle and relaxed about it. This also means that women can also tend to not push themselves hard enough, to begin treating the training center as a social club. There's two sides to the coin. This may just be detritus of societal structures, as women over the years haven't been taken as seriously as spiritual practicioners, and men have been pressed to be serious and macho rather than light-hearted and open.

One thing that deeply bothers me is when people try to translate archetypally "male" qualities to human men and archetypally "female" qualities to human women. I've ranted about this elsewhere, so I'll try not to repeat myself too much. But basically, when one uses the terms "male" and "female" to describe spiritual qualities, I think it's vital that one understand that this is only a form of shorthand. There's no simple one-to-one translation from these terms to human men and women. All people have both yin and yang in them.

TheoMo said:

Second, the Tarot itself differentiates between "male" and "female" energies, or at least that is my intellectual impression. The Magician versus the Priestess, the Emperor versus the Empress. The Star and the World are women, the Hanged Man is, well, a man. This differentiation between male and female seems to mirror other traditions that do the same thing -- yin and yang, shiva and shakti, even Catholic ideas of Jesus and Mary. So some distinction is being made, which may alter the path of spiritual growth for either sex.

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Whilst I agree with the rest of your post, I feel I must disagree with this.

For me, the Tarot does not see a difference in 'male' and 'female' energies (thereby tying gender necessarily to it) but instead uses the figures of male and female as symbols of energies we have traditionally associated with male and female. However, these energies are not related to gender at all - that is just our way of labelling things and making them easily fit into a classification system. Male and female do not necessarily equate to masculine and feminine - and this the fact that some cards have male figures and some female (and some androgynous) relates less to the experiences we have of being men and woman and more to what male and female traditionally symbolize.

Blessings,

Kiama

Kiama said:

For me, the Tarot does not see a difference in 'male' and 'female' energies (thereby tying gender necessarily to it) but instead uses the figures of male and female as symbols of energies we have traditionally associated with male and female. However, these energies are not related to gender at all - that is just our way of labelling things and making them easily fit into a classification system. Male and female do not necessarily equate to masculine and feminine - and this the fact that some cards have male figures and some female (and some androgynous) relates less to the experiences we have of being men and woman and more to what male and female traditionally symbolize.

Click to expand...

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank you.

This raises an interesting question. Are there some decks which seem to make the error of assigning this classification system to actual gender realities more than other decks?

I thought I'd mention a book by Jungian analyst Kenneth D. Newman "The Tarot: A Myth of Male Initiation". It explores the major arcana of the Marseilles deck from the perspective of male initiation. It may be worth a glance if you see it in a used bookstore.

I tend to see The Fool as adrogynous or not gender specific. Mainly because the soul or spirit is genderless & The Fool represents that on one level, yet also representative of Everyman.

Yin & yang at their essence refer to principles; are polarities representative & symbolic of the divided circle. Expressive of the dual energies or those forces which interact to comprise or create unity/union, that of the whole circle. Usually described as passive & active but not actually female & male in the mortal sense.

For the purposes of the human endeavours & the mortal experiences, however, the understanding can be most facilitated by seeing a relationship on the terms most familiar or readily perceived. Tarot is reflective of those concepts & contrasts.