Husband Disapproves

blackstormhawk said:

In reading this thread it seems that most folks here are of like mind ... that if tarot reading or even having a deck is something that half of a couple wants to do, then it's bad for the other partner to want to block or prevent that.

I'm not saying that's a right or a wrong position.

But ... what if this is an absolute deal-breaker that will disrupt an otherwise stable relationship?

What if there is no acceptable middle ground?

What if the sex roles were reversed? Wife doesn't want husband to read tarot or dabble in the occult or consort with the Devil? What if the situation involved a same sex couple? What if the item under dispute was a book by Ann Coulter? What about porn?

Would anyone's opinions change?

Clearly we're all here because of a fascination with tarot. We are predisposed to be accepting of having decks around the house, and using them for a variety of purposes. I've never really seen numbers on this, but I doubt that we represent any kind of majority.

(It's late, I'm stressed by other stuff going on in my life, but "do it anyway" doesn't seem to be a reasonable answer for the original poster's situation, and I'm just looking for some perspective.)

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I don't think, to me anyway, it makes any difference if the roles were reversed. Whether it's the wife, husband or SO who disapproves...actually, you know what. Maybe it's not about the disapproval as much as an issue of respect. The two parts of a couple need to truly respect each other, in my opinion.

The disagreeing in itself, now that I think of it is not so much the problem.
Two people are not joined at the hip, they will have different opinions and upbringings. Maybe the issue it more in the way it is brought up. Someone can disagree in a respectful way.

They could say something like "My upbringing tells me there is something wrong with it. But I can see it's something important to you. I repect your right to follow your path and I know it is not my place to control you. "

It's the area of control, where someone has certain values and wants you to adopt them, even if they are not your path. Throwing out someone's personal things without their permission is very very controlling.

Or in my case, it was blatant disrespect for something that means a lot to me. eg "that Tarot crap" and "you're becoming one of those nut cases that are really out there"...that kind of thing certainly damages a relationship.

Babs

Re: Blackstormhawk

What Babs (Sunchariot) said.

All couples have disagreements--about all kinds of things, porn and Coulter included. And while they might not find a middle ground--they can find a way to mutually respect the differences. For example, I know a couple where the wife is very sensitive when it comes to movies. So, no watching horror movies when she's in the house. But the husband loves horror movies, and he's certainly allowed to watch them.

For horror movies, substitute watching porn, using tarot cards or reading Ann Coulter. It may be a very large dispute or a very small dispute, but they are all very similar. And the results are the same: the wife learns to like horror movies OR the husband decides he doesn't like horror movies that much OR the husband and wife agree that she'll respect his taste in movies if he respects her and doesn't force her to watch such movies.

That's how relationships work.

They don't work when the wife says to the husband, "I think horror movies are evil and I don't want you to ever watch them!" That's when, yes, it becomes a deal breaker. Couples split all the time over such issues, a lot of times stupidly so because it could have been worked out. But a lot of times, one partner will start to surrender bits of themselves (give up horror movies, tarot, certain types of music they love...) in an attempt to please their spouse, and one partner is happy while the other is miserable. OR, even worse, the miserable partner is sneaking around, doing what they like to do in secret.

That's what we're beginning to have here, and that's not good.

Thirteen said:

No ultimatums. Please don't put words in my mouth, especially if you plan on mocking them.

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I wasn't mocking - far from it and I don't want to wound anyone by carrying on discussing what is clearly a sore point. I just think differently thats all.

the same kind that might lead a wife to pour out a bottle of booze that belonged to an alcoholic husband, that sort of thing.

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Drug and rehab counselors will tell you that you shouldn't throw out the alcohol, because you shouldn't presume to try and control the spouse's behavior.

Having been in that situation myself, first with my mother and then with a husband, I can tell you. . . s/he will just go get another bottle, get even more drunk to spite you, and on top of it, you get to listen to him/her rail because you had no right to do it. And you didn't.

I still think Thirteen's original advice was the best.

My (now ex) husband also declared that my suggestion (and honestly it was expressed in the mildest way without any 'or-else's attached) was an ultimatum.

I agree that the theme of mutual respect that is emerging here is a prime point.

My brother says that all the time. He knew his marriage was over when all he saw in her eyes was contempt. And this woman is or was an alcoholic who ventured into drugs, and her later career and his proved who was the more viable human being. But he says that contempt is the biggest marriage destroyer he knows. It killed mine too, though the contempt was more all-encompassing than tarot.

I admire those here who stood their ground (peacefully) and insisted on respect or at least mutual tolerance.

Marion

Marion said:

respect or at least mutual tolerance.

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I think you just described the recipe for a happy marriage

My husband loves war movies, I hate them. I love horror movies, he hates them. So when we rent movies, we get one war movie and one horror movie, and watch both together. Its not so much about the movies as it is about watching them *together* even if we disapprove of each other's choices.

We both have interests we don't share, and although he is wary of my interest in Tarot he knows me well enough (or he's smart enough) not to say much about it.

Don't get me wrong, we've had a few good arguments about various issues (just imagine two head-strong, egocentric Leos who both think they're right ) but we generally respect and support each other's individual interests. Since we're still married, it seems to be working

Of course, I'm not talking about tolerating potentially damaging and serious "interests" such as drug abuse, violence, alcholism, etc. - that's a whole other ball game.

lizziecat said:

Of course, I'm not talking about tolerating potentially damaging and serious "interests" such as drug abuse, violence, alcholism, etc. - that's a whole other ball game.

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I think this could be part of the problem though..

If he is fundamentalist enough to believe the cards are evil, it could in his mind compare to drugabuse if she were to handle the cards and it would in his opinion soil their very home - or he wouldn't have thrown the cards out in the first place.

The main question is how he comes to the conclusion that the cards are evil and whether he can get over that hump enough to listen to and respect his wifes choices, and trust her enough to be able to resist the pull of evil that he might believe to be there - just like playing around with "just a little pot" could become an addiction if it is allowed to seep and grow little by little or a couple of beers at the end of the day might grow into a couple of drinks and eventuelly full blown alcohol-addiction.


What we see as harmless or even positive is to others dangerous ground and what we interpret as lack of trust could simply be an act of love where all they want to do is keep us (and our souls) safe from harm.
This is why it's important to not get too defensive in situations like this. Defense is often interpreted as a sign of guilt, and the more logical and true to our faith we can be the better.

It needs to be talked about - but gently because fear takes time to get over, if it can be gotten over at all.

The secret to a happy marrige is tolerence and an ability to understand and respect each others differences, and enjoy your simularities. My wife and I have our things that we do together, and things we do apart. For example I like to play video games, read comics, and play war games. She likes to exercise, go out for walks with her friends, and read her books. Together we like to go swimming, do out door activities, and enjoy our children.

If she was to tell me I had to stop reading comics or else, I would tell her to go screw herself (she never would), but if she did and she really really meant it we would have to talk about it. I would want to know why she wants me to stop reading them, what proof does she have that they were bad. Why could she not just deal with it, because it is a passion of mine, a chunk of something that makes me, me. How would my sadness of not being able to read my comics, make her that much happier?

I think you just need to talk to the guy...

Eco74 said:

If he is fundamentalist enough to believe the cards are evil, it could in his mind compare to drugabuse if she were to handle the cards and it would in his opinion soil their very home - or he wouldn't have thrown the cards out in the first place.

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Anything can become dangerous if it becomes an obsession. It might not even be Tarot itself he's worried about - he might see it as a stepping stone to something he perceives is far more dangerous - like a few drinks turning into alcholism. But he is the only one who knows what he thinks. It might boil down to where each individual draws the line at what they will tolerate and what steps beyond that line. Personally, (this is not advice, btw) I would prefer to find out exacly what that line is now rather than later. Either way, its a tough call that only can be resolved by the people involved.

Possum, I'm curious whether he knew all along that your mother read Tarot, and that you had a potential interest in it? Or was this a complete surprise to him, did he think all along that you shared his beliefs? If it's something that he felt was sprung on him late in the game, while I don't like how he's going about it, I could understand some shock on his part. We go into a relationship thinking someone agrees with us on something, if we've talked about it and they've never disagreed. Change is probably the most difficult thing to handle in a relationship. Couples break up when one loses weight, sometimes, or changes religions, because one person thought they knew what to expect of the other, then they change. Now a major adjustment is required to feel they're on an even keel again.

Not that it's anyone else's business, but you see how anyone here is sort of at a loss not knowing the whole situation. But -- what you were asking was if others had gone through this.

I haven't gone through this. But, as Thirteen says, we all have things we compromise on, that's how relationships work. I've been through that, and any compromise I've been through had to begin with communication. All I can suggest is talking to him, not in hopes of persuading, but to feel out exactly where he stands and how important this is, and perhaps whether he realizes the impact on your feelings of him throwing away your deck. That there would get me either talking or packing, not asking others' opinions. That's not to criticize your asking here, but your relationship is unique to you two.

Also consider, is this an isolated thing, or is this how he treats you over lots of things? Have you been putting up with that over things that you didn't consider important, but now it's something you care about?

How you've handled compromises or disputes in other areas, as a couple, may have a great bearing on how you handle this.

If this is more important to you than other things he's acted this way on, you'll have to let him know it's not okay, and if you've let it be okay in the past, that's going to surprise him, so a new agreement has to be reached. In essence, marriage is a contract, and changes we make in that contract need to be negotiated.

Nevada