Mummluks Cards Originals And Fac Similes

Le Marseillais

Hello all,

As part of my researchs I take great interest in Mummluks cards of course and wonder if anybody could help me on some points:

Where are located originals cards apart of Istambul Topkapi Museum if any other place ?

Are there anymore copys of Fac similés who was produced some years ago ?

Does anybody have one in our Tarot Communauty ?

To works on it I need minimum to see some scans of good definition/quality.

I know that comparing Tarot and Mummluks cards is very controversal, but regarding location of Mummluks it is may be an open door toward more eastern sources.
Trading and exchanging was a very old habit of human kind and it seems to be a possible "original" source.

Thanks for your assistance and ideas.

Yves
 

Bernice

I came across images of these cards some years ago at Andys' website, and fell in love with them. But I've never seen the facimile deck for sale.

If ever it comes on the market again, I'd snap it up quick as a flash - use the rent money!

Sorry I can't help you in your quest Le Marseillais, I too would like to compare them with the tarot.

Bee
 

Strange2

I was most fortunate to obtain a copy of the Mamluk deck from an Aeclectic member here back in 2006. This was from Series B of the deck published by Aurelia Books, and printed by Carta Mundi, in 1977.

The deck consists of images scanned from the original cards, as well as reconstructions of missing cards.

I have attached a sampler scan of 4 of the cards: 2 of disks (reconstruction), 3 of cups, 5 of swords, 10 of sticks (clubs)

Let me know if you would like to see other scans of a particular card.
 

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Bernice

Thank you so much for those scans Strange 2, the cards are beautiful.
How lucky you were to get the deck!

I'm interested in the 'Cups' suit. It seems it is possible that the chinese symbol for 'wan' was mis-understood, it's similar to an upside down container (a bit like the saturn glyph) and was most likely interpreted as container vessel or cup.

I'll keep checking this thread.

Thanks again :)

Bee
 

Huck

Strange2 said:
I was most fortunate to obtain a copy of the Mamluk deck from an Aeclectic member here back in 2006. This was from Series B of the deck published by Aurelia Books, and printed by Carta Mundi, in 1977.

The deck consists of images scanned from the original cards, as well as reconstructions of missing cards.

I have attached a sampler scan of 4 of the cards: 2 of disks (reconstruction), 3 of cups, 5 of swords, 10 of sticks (clubs)

Let me know if you would like to see other scans of a particular card.

Thanks for the scan.

Actually it would be nice to see all the deck (if it's not too much for you).

Dummett noted, that the cards were not all of one deck only ... to understand his analysis it's necessary to know, what's a reconstruction and what's original.

Perhaps the booklet has additional or more uptodate information?

Compare the earlier Trionfi.com work to it:

http://trionfi.com/0/p/22/
 

Strange2

Huck said:
Actually it would be nice to see all the deck (if it's not too much for you).

Dummett noted, that the cards were not all of one deck only ... to understand his analysis it's necessary to know, what's a reconstruction and what's original.

Perhaps the booklet has additional or more uptodate information?

I'm a bit hesitant about posting scans of all the cards in the deck, for copyright reasons. I can post some more sample scans, but due to my schedule may not have time to get to that until later in April.

The pack of cards of the Topkapu Museum consists of 47 cards.

The published deck from Aurelia Books/Carta Mundi has 56 cards (4 x 14).

There are 14 cards per suit, the numbers are 1 to 10 and there are 4 court cards, i.e.:
almalik, the king
annaib, the lieutenant
annaib attani, the second lieutenant
ahad alarkan mailk al, one of the assistants of the king (aide)

Per the booklet that came with the deck, the images used in the deck came from 3 separate series of cards, as well as reconstructed cards to fill in the gaps. Apparently there is not a complete deck yet found.

The cards in the three series are as follows:

Series 1:
Cards decorated with a slanting Greek frieze at the top and inscriptions; those at the top occur on all the cards and include aphorisms, those at the bottom name the figure; a curved frieze fills the top corners; fine flower designs fill the area around these figures.

Series 1 cards:
Sticks: Lieutenant, 2nd Lieutenant, Aide
Cups: Lieutenant, 2nd Lieutenant, Aide
Coins: King, Lieutenant, 2, 3
Swords: King, Lieutenant, 8

Series 2:
Cards with a much rougher decoration than those of the first series, the top decoration is no longer a frieze, but a simple line; inscription at the top (and the bottom?).

Series 2 cards:
Sticks: 10
Coins: 2nd Lieutenant
Swords: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

Series 3:
Cards without any inscription, but with the same top curve as series 1, whereby however more room is open; as a result the decoration not only has two corner designs, but also a central design; the figures are strongly reminiscent of series 1; one could even conclude that they are identical, if this series had not included at least one number card (the 8 of swords) with an inscription at the top, which is not the case with series 1; this series has certainly served as a model for series 2 (see e.g., the bottom triangle of the swords.

Series 3 cards:
Sticks: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Cups: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Coins: 5, 7, 8, 9
Swords: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Reconstructed cards:
Because of the large number of court cards of series 1, they were used to complete them with the available data: the missing texts were adopted from unused cards; if they were not texts of the cards concerned, at least they were texts of existing cards and therefore authentic card inscriptions. The designs were also taken from existing cards. For the figure cards they used the almost complete series 3, which has a strong affinity with series 1; the missing ones were modeled on elements found elsewhere in the series.

Reconstructed cards:
Sticks: King, 2nd Lieutenant, 1, 2, 3
Cups: King
Coins: 2nd Lieutenant, Aide, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 10
Swords: 2nd Lieutenant, Aide, 2, 8, 9, 10
 

Bernice

Thank you Strange2 for that detailed summery. It's a pity that they didn't make all the card to have a Greek frieze. But I suppose they printed it for pureists...

Still sounds lovely. looking forward to the simple scans :) (Please)

Bee
 

Huck

Thanks for your presentation ..

As indicated in my earlier post already there is a specific problem between Mayer's representation (who made the first report about the deck in the 30's of 20th century) and the later Michael Dummett presentation. They differ ... Naturally Dummett explains, that Mayer was in error ... but naturally one should know these things more precisely, Dummett's opinion is not naturally correct.

Mayer talks of 5 suits, Dummett talks of 4 suits.

Actually it's possible, that the deck had originally a 5x14-structure (following Mayer), but Dummett explains that it's a common 4x13-deck.

The 5x14-structure and the 5x14-theory are a hot spot here in the forum, so it's of some value to get this right and to know Dummett's argument.

Compare:
http://trionfi.com/0/p/22/
 

frelkins

Yes we would all love to have a deck of that Mamluk reproduction! Pity they have never been reprinted! They are simply gorgeous.
 

Huck

frelkins said:
Yes we would all love to have a deck of that Mamluk reproduction! Pity they have never been reprinted! They are simply gorgeous.

Hm ... above it is noted, that they were reprinted.