Cardstock quality

baba said:

Edited to add. We think that in future we will try to print "Gold" editions (assuming we do them) on thicker stock - as we can afford to spend more on the basic production there. The BBCats Gold is on a thicker stock than any we've used so far. But a different supplier - so we will see how it actually comes out!

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Look forward to purchasing these cards baba - and you are one who keeps as eye on such things, as Im sure other consciencious businesses do.

Im not sure the reason behind this new wave of card stock - possibly it wont be around for long, and possibly it was a massive warehouse batch that is also very disappointing to not only the publishers, but a few people concerned with the production. A amnufacturer maybe having to get rid of this cards stock somehow ... and somewhere along the line it has been picked up by card makers.

I understand that once there are 5000 printed decks sitting waiting for shipping with pre-orders and a time constraint, and budget to look after, sometimes theres nothing more that can be done but to ship them out ...

Maybe in 25years time, these flimsy decks will become the dreaded collectables. LOL!! The remnants of a time when Tarot production went down the tube for a while Until Tarot users rallied, and got their standard back. Ok - Im dreaming here because I bought some

Blessings Elven x

Elven said:

The cards flex and bend better than Jane Fonda!:

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I just had to say that made me laugh out loud!!

Sorry to hear your deck has bad cardstock.

Maybe you can find an extra deck in the trade forum and put the new one away for later use?

pumpkin said:

Maybe you can find an extra deck in the trade forum and put the new one away for later use?

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Hi pumpkin
The laminator is heating up as I write - I would really like to use them, so I'll be card 'cooking' for the next hour

Blessings Elven x

Oh yes! Lamination is a good answer for this!

Flimsy card stock is a "thing" with me. I need card that is a little thicker too...

which is why, as a hand made deck creator I get so frustrated on a semi regular basis!

It's why it took a year to finally print the Midnight Masquerade...because I wanted it to feel like a real card! (still not perfect...but the extra work is worth it!)

It's why the first 12 Minute decks became proof decks..because I just couldn't sell anything with flimsy cardstock! (and the printers promised me they were using was the Cover stock...and not the cardstock...but the difference is HUGE! Big liarheads!)


It's why I have to constantly check my new printed Minute stock, because the lazy printers slipped in some thinner stuff among the good stuff! When you have 60 copies of 8 pages each...you can't check every single page right away!

It's why I drive my spouse absolutely CRAZY because I apparently can feel a difference of 1 mil, even though no one else knows what I'm talking about!

It's why I gave up even TRYING to print the All Hallows myself...and gave it to the lovely Gardener, so she gets to worry about the cardstock and lamination!

Yep. Card stock is horribly important to me. It's why I am afraid to talk to publishers...because I don't always trust their quality.

(Well..ok...it's not the only reason I'm afraid of publishers...I think I'm just afraid of Publishers! )

I know there's a joke here with having cards etched on wood, but my addled brain can't quite come up with it.

To be more on topic: Both issues brought up (bend and size) bother me, and I think in my case it's because I have small hands. I can just barely get them around the druidcraft's length, and trying to force my hands around a deck kind of encourages the cards to bend more, if that makes sense.

I particularly like the weight of, say, the Gilded, or most of the LS decks I've bought. (Irony: I like the weight of LS decks, but try to only buy the ones that come with books, as I find their LWB light on information.)

But you know, as long as people are using CARDstock (with carbon layer) and not just thick paper or card, the cards should actually be fine, even if they may feel bendy to begin with.

Personally I wouldn't laminate anything unless absolutely necessary. I don't like the plastic feel and the way it makes the cards SO very thick (and the print look like it's seen behind glass). It also really isn't nice when it begins to wear (I have a very old oracle deck that was laminated - the laminate is now half worn off and makes a real mess of the cards).

But well, we're all different. I just don't much like most laminates - though I know that when very well done they can be fine.

Elven said:

Hi pumpkin
The laminator is heating up as I write - I would really like to use them, so I'll be card 'cooking' for the next hour

Blessings Elven x

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I would like to get a laminator. Can you cut right up to the card so you don't have clear laminate at the edge?

I have just finished laminating them and have cut the sides ... and am just doing the corners now
They have come out alot better, and so I have my deck back *phew*

They still have a flex in them, but its a workable one, they're not stiff, and the colours have come out in them as well - they're alot brighter.

Hi pumpkin
I've cut them to the 'closed seam' - a smidgeon before the card edge, and so far this deck has had no mishaps - slicing the card
The reason I have cut them close but not exact, is because there is a very very slight curve from corner to corner on some of them from their cutting - so to keep the deck consistant - Ive cut them all with an edge.

They look really neat now I'm happy, but, by the time I've finished them completely, and re-edged the odd one which is a touch out - it will be putting 2+ hours into getting the deck so its useable .... who do I send the bill too

Blessings Elven x

Hi Chronata

We have cardstock anxiety!! LOL!! I can also feel if a card is slightly thinner - and it drives me nutty LOL!!

Reading what you and baba have said, I see the time and effort you put into your decks (I have cards from both of you) - as deck creators and readers - this makes I difference. I am the same when making Sabian Symbols on cards - I buy RWS blanks and do what I can with them, or I use card stock that I can work with. I dont have the resources for a big production - its one deck at a time.

But the card stock Im relating the thread to is not even reasonable, and I know there are many dedicated card producers who would also agree ... but its becoming more apparent. Maybe not to someone who just buys one deck or is given the deck as a gift. I think it takes a bit to find your 'groove' with what you like personally - but I dont want any more of these flimsy decks if this is going to be the standard which is being mass produced -

Hi baba
Sorry, I didnt see your post ... but the deck is on it way to nearly being done now, but not through any choice of my own - I wouldnt have touched them if they had been useable, but they are nearly finished and it has made a difference - I can use them - where as they may have never seen the light of day again ... and I mentioned to pumpkin, they still flex, so they are not stiff. Little mercies in the card stock being that thin, that they are now OK

femalegamer said:

To be more on topic: Both issues brought up (bend and size) bother me, and I think in my case it's because I have small hands. I can just barely get them around the druidcraft's length, and trying to force my hands around a deck kind of encourages the cards to bend more, if that makes sense.

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Yes, it does. Thats when I start to shuffle the cards lengthwise - so as not to bend them, or stress the side edges further. Good point.

Blessings Elven x

Hi Elven

I'm with you, the poor quality of cardstock really pisses me off! and decks are starting to become more expensive here in Australia. I hope that you will write to the publishers and if you do definatly explain to them that they are Tools that you use, hell forward the publishers to this particular thread