Chiron Return

firecatpickles

While Solar and Lunar Returns are often used by astrologers, but not always well-used, there is great value in using the transiting Moon to a natal body --- Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars.
** t/Moon to n/Sun Return; depicts the changes that intrude on one's intended life direction and can show how to rebalance one's life.
** t/Moon to n/Mercury; can be applied to public communication. I used this charting format to follow and explain the difficult roll-out of Obama's health care system in the fall of 2011. Mercury represented the news releases, the coding and the coordination of the many industry volunteers who helped to straighten out the computer breakdowns so that people could sign up for health care. Moon represented the public, the emotional response by the opposition party.
** t/Moon to n/Venus Returns can be applied to love relationships, partnerships, marketing. Moon, of course, represents change, reactions, variables. While Venus can relate to a products attractiveness, value, satisfaction, fashion, etc. One can be flexible with these mixes of planets.
** t/Moon to n/Mars works best with anger issue, attacks, tragedy and crime applications. But it might also be used for creativity projects.

In a few cases I have used t/Moon to n/Saturn and to n/Pluto charting. The Scotish killer Bradey who abducted girls and took them out to the moors to rape, kill and murder them was one recent case. With Saturn, I charted his arrest and court case. With Pluto I charted his conviction and transfer to a life in jail. Saturn was useful as a limitation symbol (arrest) and Pluto was useful as a transformative and irrevocable situation linked to never again see freedom.

However, when one use charts in these ways, the interpretive nuanceing has to be rigidly adhered to. You can't casually apply typical natal interpretations.

I've read before that personal aspects can be interpreted much like horary aspects.

Also, being a Cancerian I pay close attention to the Moon in day-to0day stuff which seems pretty accurate.
 

firecatpickles

Parenthetically, as a traditional astrologer I do not assign rulership of any sign to Chiron or the outer planets, but I note their positions and find that they yield useful information in many situations. To me, Chiron seems analogous to an ambassador shuttling between inner- and outer-planetary "missions": in that context, Clow's book is excellent.

Chiron is something I look at much the same way: its effects more than a strong influence.
 

firecatpickles

OK... :D


I found these! https://cafeastrology.com/ephemerisasteroid2018.html = Asteroid Ephemeris 2018, with lots of other ephemerides in the sidebar, both asteroid and non-asteroid (though none further ahead than 2018).

My natal Chiron is in Pisces 29° 29' 1", retrograde. It will be at 29° 29' 0" on 30th March 2018, at noon Eastern time, and 29° 29' 3" at noon the next day, so I guessed 8pm, converted to GMT and used Astrodienst to tweak the date and time as you did, firecatpickles, until it landed on 29° 29' 1" precisely. NOT retrograde. :)
We must be about the same age then!

As long as Astrodienst is right (I tend to think that's more likely than CaféAstrology), my Chiron return will fall on Sunday 8th April 2018, 3:07am. That's more than a week later than the ephemeris said which puzzles me. But anyway, I'll be 51¾ very nearly (and it's the day before my ex's birthday (grrr), which will help it stick in the memory).

I'm sure the effect will last months if not years either side, though. As much as ten years either side or even more? (Given that a solar return "fades in" and "fades out" three months either side of its point in time, according to what I've read at least.)
I crunched the numbers and determined when Chiron was within ten degrees, and then again when it entered my natal House (of Chiron)

Then the next step. Astrodienst allows a synastry report with an event, so I did that. Give me technology, see me bend it to my will. ;)

Someone tell me if this patching-it-together method is ok! More importantly, tell me if it's NOT ok.

I'll have to do this next :)
But there I stop, as it will be a lot of palaver to read it - I haven't any experience with reading any kind of return chart, though I have read a few step-by-step articles.
Doing astrology exactly this way is how I have been learning (slowly) over the past few years. It's interesting to see how the aspects coincide with what's going on in my life at the moment rather than venture into predictive astrology so much.

I do (based on "how to read a solar return" how-to's) know enough to notice the Ascendant - in Capricorn (my natal Asc is Saggy) - so would that mean the "wisdom" I've learnt from what I've gone through so far (which is quite a bit actually) will feed into my career and that kind of thing, in later life? If so I'm glad, as that's my intention currently. I'm researching and taking steps towards earning some money (if not exactly a living) through my healing and spirituality, and those have developed through losing my health and having a crap marriage that wasn't far from a prison-type situation. Mars, Moon and Jupiter (which is conjunct my natal Sun) are all close to the return Asc - the Moon conjunct within less than a degree; I think this supports the business/spiritual thing I just said, especially if it also broadens my social network, but I'm guessing - am I making sense?

This is what my thoughts were, also, especially about the marriage/prison analogy.

The thing that struck me even before looking at the Ascendant was how unbalanced my ChR* chart is. Houses 4-9 are completely empty except for the True Node in Leo - just over a degree from my natal Jupiter and 5° from natal Sun. In psychological astrology, this is a bowl chart (http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/Bowl.htm). He says, talking about psychology of course:
* Is that even a thing, that abbreviation? :laugh:

This phenomenon is called "peregrine". I have Saturn peregrine in my 10th House. I've heard it means involvement with politics later in life, and it is something I've been trying hard to avoid the last few years!

Now, I do know that extrapolating from psychological descriptions to apply them to is risky. But it's fun. ;) I'm thinking, my stubbornness is already developing. Before my thirties I was all about accommodating. And giving up if anything was any kind of struggle, however much it mattered.

The other thing I've noticed so far is that no planets are in Air signs in the return chart; seven, plus the Ascendant, are in Cardinal signs, and all of those fire and earth. :eek: There's only Neptune and Chiron itself in mutable signs, which kind of goes with the stubbornness in Bob Marks' description above.

I don't know how to interpret houses in a return chart.

This site, http://www.astrology-x-files.com/ , has some good houses information. From what I gather, you would consider the native house and not the returning one.

Me too, most definitely. Midlife crisis? ;) What with this and then the Saturn return, hm. Ten years ago (ten years this coming Wednesday, in fact!) I lost my health; wasn't driving for 7½ years, written off as no chance of ever earning a living again. Certainly I won't do the 9-to-5 again (thank goodness) but I am looking at ways of earning at least something, and getting excited about things that will boost my own health while bringing help and value to other people's lives - and potentially earning quite well, if it all goes right and I don't goof and no aeroplanes land on my house or runaway moose trample me, or anything like that. (You laugh, but you wouldn't believe the number of Universe-dumping-on-me-out-of-the-blue events I've weathered in recent years!)

I see Saturn returns as more of the "midlife crisis" aspect. But as a friend told me once (who was in his sixties, "Life is a series of midlife crises" ;)


The big change in my thinking is seeing "business" as my life, instead of dividing everything including my address book into business and leisure. I recognised, and it felt like a sudden revelation, that all my life I've "planned" (somehow I was planning when I thought I was just reading leaflets out of general interest) to start a small business, become self-employed - for example. Suddenly I realised that my lifelong problem with building a social circle* will be solved if I combine business with leisure, ie work with people whose company I love; and I'll find that easier, I relate better to people if we're meeting with a defined common purpose rather than just for a chat or a pizza or to shop for clothes. I'm better addressing a meeting or a class than managing smalltalk, and far more interested in it.

* First shyness, then overwork that left me no spare minutes to stay in touch, then illness isolated me thoroughly, yet I felt the need throughout to be among people, my "tribe".

I'm really interested that my Chiron Return Ascendant is in Capricorn, since I'm moving gradually but so definitely towards business/career in all my conscious thinking and (finally! this year) actinos. After having been brought up to believe that if it was profitable it was unworthy; uselessness was more virtuous than gain; ambition = greed = despicable. !!!

This is similar to my experience, also. Around my Saturn return I started getting interested in the fire service (again) after nearly twenty years (becoming first interested when I was 19 and went to college instead of pursuing it aggressively. Now I am surrounded by like-minded folks who are just as crazy as I am. It's most certainly a "soul's correction", or karmic, situation. Maybe with the midlife-crisis-Saturn-returns aspect we formulate ideas and by the time of the Chiron Return we're putting our ideas into action?
I have also learnt to ask for help. That is one of the great blessings of long-term poor health. We learn to state need without apology, and to delegate, and we learn our limits. I am privileged, not many people master this, hardly anyone until age makes them frail.

And I've learnt that I'm a healer and empath - and explored these and become competent, and confident, exercising these abilities for the benefit of myself and others. This got me interested in the shamanic thing which again is the wounded-healer thing.

What really makes me wonder is what about the second Chiron Return? I know not many people have one, but enough do. Last month I went to my aunt's funeral, and she was 106 so it makes you think. I didn't know her well enough to know if her approach to life changed around the century - but I do know she stopped baby-sitting, driving, and travelling overseas in her late 90s. (Wow. :)) Maybe the second return is more about finishing the task of sharing one's hard-won wisdom, and receiving the acknowledgement and respect earnt in the sharing stage?

One way and another, I really hope that the tougher stage of life is over now, in my own case.
I think Chiron return would settle us down from the Saturn returns aspect and see our dreams come into reality (or not). Acceptance being a key term here?
(And on that original tarot reading, firecatpickles - intriguing to see the 5 of Pents standing for the wounded healer. I'd always say the Hermit for that concept, but now you say it, 5P is utterly valid for it. An extra angle on the 5P for me, great - thanks!)
It's great when tarot ans astrology collide :joke:
 

firecatpickles

I strongly recommend Barbara Hand Clow's book, Chiron: the Rainbow Bridge between the Inner and Outer Planets. It is still in print and available at Amazon for about $16 US. She includes chapters on natal Chiron, Chiron transits and Chiron returns, interspersed with astrological information related to cycles, precessional ages, generational influences, and so on.

Parenthetically, as a traditional astrologer I do not assign rulership of any sign to Chiron or the outer planets, but I note their positions and find that they yield useful information in many situations. To me, Chiron seems analogous to an ambassador shuttling between inner- and outer-planetary "missions": in that context, Clow's book is excellent.

Here's something that might interest you. I haven't read the article to see how sound its astrological fundamentals are, but it also refers to a few other Chiron books beside Clow's, as well as Zane Stein's website. I don't use Chiron or any other asteroids in my own work, which has become decidedly more traditional in the last few years.

http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/miscarticles/chiron-in-pisces.htm

My reading list has expanded! I usually read a lot during the summer when outside by the pool. Now if will ever warm up I'll be set.
 

MandMaud

We must be about the same age then!
Yep. :D

This is what my thoughts were, also, especially about the marriage/prison analogy.

Hm! Sympathies! :neutral:

This phenomenon is called "peregrine". I have Saturn peregrine in my 10th House. I've heard it means involvement with politics later in life, and it is something I've been trying hard to avoid the last few years!

Just off to google 'peregrine'... back in a mo...

This site, http://www.astrology-x-files.com/ , has some good houses information. From what I gather, you would consider the native house and not the returning one.
That site is badly in need of an index page... but it's interesting. Zapped all his houses articles to my kindle for simplicity, so I'll look at them later.

I see Saturn returns as more of the "midlife crisis" aspect. But as a friend told me once (who was in his sixties, "Life is a series of midlife crises" ;)

Yes to Saturn and the midlife crisis - but that's funny, I have always thought of life as a series of "teenage phases". :laugh: Probably devised that when I realised how patronising it is to dismiss as "just a phase" all the valuable learning and rehearsal and trying-out that youngsters do and bloomin well ought to be doing.

This is similar to my experience, also. Around my Saturn return I started getting interested in the fire service (again) after nearly twenty years (becoming first interested when I was 19 and went to college instead of pursuing it aggressively. Now I am surrounded by like-minded folks who are just as crazy as I am.

Certainly a sense of finding my tribe - or at least knowing that I'll recognise it, which simply didn't compute twenty or even ten years ago. A nice feeling of being on firm ground, in a way. Much less worry about being seen to be "like this" or "like that" because there's a kind of trust behind/beneath everything that if I just go ahead and act as comes naturally, the world's big enough that someone somewhere will find that to be exactly what they like. (eg acting like a leader, which I used to worry came across as bossy - but now, I can see people being glad of it. Would have been nice to be in touch with this in my 20s when going into management was still an option!)

I just reminded myself of the World card; especially the big about "the world's big enough".

It's most certainly a "soul's correction", or karmic, situation. Maybe with the midlife-crisis-Saturn-returns aspect we formulate ideas and by the time of the Chiron Return we're putting our ideas into action?

Hm...:confused: I'll think about that. I have always thought of Saturn as the getting-real / making-it-real guy.

I think Chiron return would settle us down from the Saturn returns aspect and see our dreams come into reality (or not). Acceptance being a key term here?

Acceptance, in a way... not sure that's the main thing for me... more a "Sod it" frame of mind. ;) Which may in fact be the same as acceptance!