rachelcat said:
Especially the info about Virgo and Mary. And Ichthys as a dying god. It seems as if there are no new religions; the old ones just get recyled! Maybe Jung was right. It's not just old religions being recyled, it's all religions come from the same place, the mind and spirit of humans!
Glad you find it interesting - you've reminded me to take a look at Jung and what he says about fish...
Jung wrote a lot about fish including: The Historical Significance of the Fish;
The Ambivalence of the Fish Symbol and The Fish in Alchemy in RESEARCHES INTO THE PHENOMENOLOGY OF THE SELF
Jung write some pretty interesting stuff about fish. Here's a brief synopsis of his chapters:
The historical significance of the fish.
The history of the astrological fish and ram symbols are compared to Christian symbolism and examined in terms of their associations with psychological premises. The dualism of the fish symbol in particular corresponds to the dual nature of Christ as the God image; as the God image is an archetype of the dual self, any imbalance in its expression, such as the suppression of the concept of evil in late Christianity, results in a profound uneasiness in the psyche. The destruction of the God image in the modem world has thus set in motion the destruction of the human personality. A comparison is made between the Christian and astrological interpretations of the fishes. Fishes of astrology are seen as Christ and the Virgin Mother, for in the astrological legend one fish becomes two, representing a mother/son relationship. In the astrological myth, the mother is a danger to her son; this destructive interpretation is related to the dangers in Christ's own childhood and the other Christian symbols and parables. The astrological characteristics of the fish are seen to contain the essential components of the Christian myth; however, no proof exists that Christian fish symbolism was derived from the zodiac, nor that the Christ/Antichrist polarity is causally related to the dualism of the Fishes. A more likely prototype for the Christ/fish symbol structure is considered to lie in pagan cults and myths.
The ambivalence of the fish symbol
The dual symbol of the fish in astrological and Christian tradition is examined in its correspondences with psychic structure. The splitting of the monster who opposes God in early Jewish tradition into the two monsters Leviathan and Behemoth is compared to the doubling of the shadow figure in dreams: it is explained that in each case one of the forces in conflict -- the God image or the conscious ego personality -- is incomplete, necessitating that the dual symbol of the fish appears as well in ancient Middle Eastern symbolism, and is even found as an explicit symbol of the soul in Egyptian mythology. Another dual symbol, that of the North as source of evil and birthplace of God, traced through Arab, Babylonian and Mithraic texts, is discovered in Ezekiel's vision of God. This symbolic coincidence of opposites, with the similar dualism of the fish and other symbols, is discussed in terms of the incongruity of late Christianity's radical separation of the devil from God; the paradoxical symbolism of alchemy is seen as a more or less conscious compensation for this imbalance in the expression of the archetypal God image.
The fish in alchemy. 1. The medusa
The associations of the fish in alchemical, Christian and psychological symbolism are discussed. The fish in alchemical texts prior to the Ilth century is found to be identified with the lapis philosophorum, considered psychologically as a complex symbol of the self. Numerous references appear to the fish glowing from an inner fire of a dual nature represented both as the light of divine grace and as the fires of hell. This type of dualism is noted to have occurred frequently in medieval symbolism, but without any apparent awareness of the unity of opposing forces such a dual nature implies. An investigation of the complex network of archetypal symbols in alchemy reveals its close correspondence with the structure of the psyche; in particular, the unity of hell and God as the source of the world is seen to be parallel to the unified source of all disparate psychic operations, whether they are creative or destructive.
The fish in alchemy. 2. The fish
A distinction is drawn between the jelly fish in medieval symbolism and the alchemic cinedian fish with its relation to the lapis. Several texts concerning the nature of the fish are examined, the influence of the writings of Pliny is discussed, and the Messianic role attributed to it by Sir George Ripley is mentioned. To the alchemists the fish was a real fish of ancient times; it had legs and contained a dragon's stone, a white gem that acts as a alexipharmic. Its dual nature is emphasized; sometimes it was represented as white and sometimes as black, and from this union of opposites its magical powers were derived. The fish supposedly lived in the center of the ocean, or the center of the spirit of the world. For the alchemists the ocean was a symbol for the unconscious, hence the fish can be seen as a symbol of the self and, therefore, also of God. The power of the fish is defined as giving to the one who ate it the knowledge of all things. In this sense, it is compared to the eucharist. 2 references.
The fish in alchemy. 3. The fish symbol of the Cathars
In the writings of the Cathars, the symbol of the fish was used in conjunction with beliefs about creation, power and the devil. These beliefs are examined and related to astrological, alchemical and Christian interpretations surrounding the fish. The interpretations are seen as figures representing the birth of consciousness under the control of the fish. A comparison is made between St. Augustine's interpretation of the multiplication of the loaves and fishes and the Cathars' perception of the fish; the former interpreted the fishes as symbolizing Christ's kingly and priestly power; the Cathars as the two ruling powers of Christ and devil. To the Cathars, it also meant that God knew and intended the enantiodromia of the world. The reappearance of the symbol of the fish in dreams, shown by means of a case study, illustrates the the unconscious "knowledge" of the individuation process and its historical symbolism.
The alchemical interpretation of the fish
The alchemical belief that the magical fish can be captured and used as a magnetic attraction to the prima materia is viewed as a secret doctrine rather than a chemical process. Since this doctrine could be taught, the alchemical symbols for the process represent two things: the chemical substance itself and the doctrine or theory of preparation. Analogies with the Holy Ghost archetype are discussed. From the writings of the alchemist Dorn, it is deduced that the arcane substance was the same whether it came from inside or outside of the seeker; hence it can be concluded that Dom recognized selfknowledge as the source of all other knowledge. The discussion turns to man's limited knowledge of himself, explained by showing that the majority of man's processes reside in the unconscious. The importance of Freud's and Adler's discoveries in this context are mentioned. It is felt that Freud delineated the elementary and Adler the final proof of these unconscious causal factors which are each person's individual potential. As is evident from this study, for the alchemists and for the modem psychologists, the self is not part of the ego but part of the unconscious. Alchemy, then, is credited with being the foundation for modem scientific thinking.
Background to the psychology of Christian alchemical symbolism.
The widening chasm between faith and knowledge is discussed and related to modem man's reluctance to accept anything not based on objective fact. Scientific stress on objectivity and its neglect of the psyche until recently is contrasted with the Gnostic and alchemic recognition of the importance of the psyche and experiential knowledge. Modem man is perceived as scoffing at dogma which is based on faith and is subjective. It is noted that only'a short time ago most of the world was pagan, and that Christianity has little power left, since modern man does not accept such notions as the Virgin birth as easily as did man at the time of Christ. The danger inherent in destroying tradition and myths is explained, and its importance is emphasized; since myths are part of the unconscious, they act as a bridge between the conscious and unconscious. Christ, as a combination of God and man archetypes, is part of this bridge. The fish symbol supports the importance of dogma and subjective experience or acts as an antidote for the fractionalizing tendencies of the modern mind. The psychological concept of human wholeness or individualization is seen as a modem replacement for the symbol of the fish.
Gnostic symbols of the self
The concept of the fish caught by magnetic attraction is extended to the image of Christ, who exerts a magnetic attraction on the divine nature of man. Three symbols of the magnetic agent -- water, the serpent, and the Logos -- found in Gnostic texts are considered symbols of assimilation corresponding to the assimilation of the ego psyche and the supraordinate self (individuation) which is the ultimate goal of the psychotherapeutic process. This process of individuation is related to the practices of the Gnostics and the alchemists, in which their awareness of the unconscious was formulated to suit the character of the age in which they lived. Meister Eckhart likened changes in the God image to changes in human consciousness, since God represented for him the ideal wholeness of man. The unconscious was expressed by the Gnostics in symbols of the universal ground as the beginning or source of perfection. Symbols found in dreams and visions are compared with the Gnostic association of sexual symbolism with Christ; the interpretation of the vision of John (John 3:12), which incorporates typical dream symbols of the mountain, Christ, woman figure and copulation is presented. The marriage quatemion and the figure of the perfect man in Naassene symbolism are found to parallel early Christian symbolism; both are seen to be closely connected with psychic realities. Two specific examples of second century formulations of the psychological nature of the self, conceived under the influence of Christian thought, are found in the conception of the perfect and complete man, the Monad, in Monoimos, and in the description by Plotinus of the soul as a dynamic process of circling around a central point. The latter concept is related to the similar structure of the mandala image, and to the alchemical image of the arcane substance as the invisible piont which is the center of all things. The assimilation of Christ to similar symbols, such as the mustard seed or the hidden treasure, is not seen as a devaluation of Christ's personality, but the desirable integration of Christ into the human psyche, and the resultant expansion of personality and consciousness. It is felt that the onesided rationalism of the modem world threatens this integration.
http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=274&Itemid=41