Getting published

scorpiana

this is all very interesting and appropriate- i have just started trying to get an agent for some children's illustration work i am doing--you can check out my oracle deck in creation in the "oracle deck" forum (shameless plug, i know, but i need some feedback!)

there are a lot of great books out there on publishing- not specifically tarot cards, but certainly there is all kinds of info to be had on agents, the publishing process, editors, etc. the one i recommend is "the writers and illustrators market"- the 2007 edition just came out, and there are worldwide sources, addresses, advice, etc. good luck!
 

euripides

ZenMusic said:
this is not generally true.. for most publishers..my experience is different

I'm author of 10 books (and 100 magazine articles).. all are non-fiction. some are technical.. some are metaphysical.... all published by well-known publishers..

1. I got an advance of $10,000 to $15,000 for each book upfront, generally 1/4 or 1/3 early .. the rest as the book is completed
2. I get royalities (usually 10%, and now I get a sliding scale increase as (IF) sales pass certain numbers i.e 100,000)
3. I OWN THE COPYRIGHT of every book (except the first one, I didn't realize that I could get that option)) in any case the book ownership should revert to you when out of print..

ZenMusic, interesting to hear your experience. Perhaps I should have emphasised that this was my single experience with one particular publisher. It was my first book so I was very naive about the whole process, and even just things like visualising how the material would layout on the page made it much more difficult. This particular publisher is a cheap popular line and their deals are generally non-negotiable.

My editor told me that my talents were wasted with that company and mentioned a contact elsewhere, which I appreciated. However I also have a website that does very well, and I'd have to be sure of an excellent deal to consider a book again. One of the things that I like about internet publishing is the fact that as I progress, I can go back and edit old stuff - but in a book, its out there forever. Though of course, that isn't relevant where Tarot is concerned.

Interesting comments about Amazon. I wonder if I should 'put my money where my mouth is' and buy from Tarotgarden instead.

Moonboy, if I made art for free, I would starve. Collectors and dealers make money out of it, why shouldn't I? It took years of work and study to develop my skills. University fees. Materials. Your idealism is admirable, it really is, but it isn't realistic, I'm afraid. (Its why I love Star Trek, that idealised view of the human race: everyone works for the good of humankind.)


warmest wishes
Euri
 

HudsonGray

I'd go with half of what Moonboy says, do it for the heart. Yes, get money too, as that's part of the goal of whatever is being created usually, but when you do the work for yourself it's a lot more satisfying than trying to do something you think other people want to see.

But it's a real world and we all have to eat and pay the bills, so if you get a couple of projects you 'love' in with the masses of stuff that 'have to be done' I count things lucky.
 

retrokat

Self Publishing without shame

Very timely to see this thread resurrected.

I was reading the new book the Long Tail, which I've been following online for awhile http://longtail.com/ and was fascinated by the chapter on publishing, entitled 'Self Publishing Without Shame'. The statistics were jaw-dropping, in a very encouraging way for those of us who produce content.

Who needs an agent or a publisher when you can write, format and create a book through http://lulu.com and have it sold on Amazon as print-on-demand in B+W, or order full colour copies to sell yourself or through boutique stores.

I'm looking at doing a non-fiction book through them. It's on a very niche topic (VJing), and so I wouldn't expect even a technical publisher to be very interested. But if I can do it all myself, I don't really care if it doesn't sell many copies - I'll be able to use it myself as a teaching manual in courses I run, and it will help my profile within the VJ community. With no up-front expenses and the potential to actually make money from it - the whole publishing formula is turned on it's head.

I love the internet!

If only they'd do tarot decks.... *sigh*
 

retrokat

Reality check

Moonboy said:
One should make art for free.....for themselves. Money is nice, but it should be an afterthought

Uh... is your landlord your Mom, by any chance? And do the pixies make magical pies for your supper?

Sorry to sound so harsh, but would you prefer artists all had day-jobs at McDonalds rather than trying to make money enough from our art to live off?
 

Little Baron

What a very interesting thread to read.

Thanks for bumping it back up, whoever did that.

I have just begun deck designing. And it is a very shaky start. But as each little piece comes together, and I am bringing my own 'knights' and 'fools' out of the darkness, I am getting little jolts of emotion. I never realised that I had my own 'Knight of Cups' - that he wasn't the one in the Druidcraft, that my own special 'Knight of Wands' was not really Tom Tom from the Phantasmagoric. But 'my' knight is here now. Not in his full glory, since he still needs some work, but he has arrived - in his bathtub (see last post in the InnerCity thread). So yes, I can understand part of what you mean, Karen - I think this experience willl aid my reading, but it is also challenging me to see what I really think the characters and cards mean to me, personally. And even though I have only done two, I have been startlingly emoted by the experience. It was like they were there all along, just waiting to be born and unleashed.

Financial gain would be a wonderful thing. But that is not my consideration at the moment. I just wanted to create. I felt I needed a project to direct a lot of stuff into and it came in a flow of inspiration, which is why I am hanging on to it. I don't think, from the lack of the interest here, that it is one that would be particularly popular - I think it is too off the beaten track for popularity. But I have not set out to be popular. Just to unload and mould my vision.
At the moment, my landlady is my mother, but I can totally understand what you mean, Kat. This is your business. I design clothes (usually, or should I say sometimes, as I am not working at the moment ;) ) but I don't just knock 'em up on the sewing machine and wear them at the weekends. I do it for money. For me, it is just a nicer 'bread and butter' job than others I could have. And one I can still get excited about.

Hope I have explained myself properly.
LB
 

retrokat

Well articulated, LB. I understand completely the desire to make art as a form of self-expression. I made the first low-res version of Golden Tarot as a hobby, for love, whatever you want to call it. I was in the US then the UK, and not legally allowed to work, so I lived off my credit card and indulged my passion to create the deck.

Then, when I got offered a deal, I knew it involved a big commitment. I was back in Australia and had a job (to pay off the credit card debt, for a start!), and I decided to let my day-job IT contract expire to work fulltime on GT at print resolution. As most of you know, it took me over 1500 hours. I don't think there are many people that have the spare time and financial backing to invest that sort of time 'for love'.

I know it will never make me rich. It just barely pays my rent, despite being one of the most popular decks on the market. But it contributes to me having the freedom to be investing my time in my next project without having to take some shitty job that sucks out my creativity.

Financially, it's a very hard transition from hobbyist to professional artist. As Hudson said, there's a lot of 'what has to be done' in between what you love doing - but he's right - if you can even make a meagre living from your art, you're one of the luckiest people in the world. I've given up the idea of ever owning a home, and luckily I don't want kids. Those are the sort of things you have to consider if you want to make the lifestyle choice of becoming a fulltime, professional artist.

I guess my main point is the same as Euripedes and Hudson's... we have to support ourselves. Doing that with art is bloody hard work, but it's a labour of love. To say art should be done for free undermines it's value, and the artist's ability to commit one's labour to their art.

I'll get off my soapbox now :p
 

FearfulSymmetry

<<3. I OWN THE COPYRIGHT of every book (except the first one, I didn't realize that I could get that option)) in any case the book ownership should revert to you when out of print..>>

Thanks Zenmusic! I didn't know you could do that! That is one of my biggest concerns with having the Mary-el published by a publisher, I worry it will go out of print and that will be that.
Since tarot is such a niche market I wonder if the big publishers would even go for that kind of a deal?
I would rather not self publish if I could avoid it but at the same time want to do what's best for the deck.

I can see why people would want to do art for love or for money. To me the ideal situation would be to have a successful non art career that provides enough money and free time to do art to the hearts content. A girl can dream!
As an aside, art is made to be shared isn't it? Don't a lot of us feel compelled to push it out into the world? Its those paying situations that sometimes do that, otherwise its closet fodder.
 

FearfulSymmetry

LittleBuddha said:
I have been startlingly emoted by the experience. It was like they were there all along, just waiting to be born and unleashed.

Hey Little Buddha!

I totally hear you, I really do. That feeling has been so strong for me I often repaint cards until I see the 'familiar face' then I know I got it right and when I get a glimpse of it I chase it because I know that's where I'm going. It's a wild process and it gets wilder and more difficult as you go along.

I am lucky that my situation was such that I didn't have to create for money. If I was doing art for money it sure wouldn't be in tarot. Tarot is a labor of love. I have yet to meet a single person who has gotten rich from it. There might be a few, Mr. Kaplan maybe? I dunno, but I haven't met them.
 

euripides

FearfulSymmetry said:
As an aside, art is made to be shared isn't it? Don't a lot of us feel compelled to push it out into the world? Its those paying situations that sometimes do that, otherwise its closet fodder.

Oh, well said indeed! This is SO true! A friend of mine is a really great painter - he's been painting all his life, and is truly great - but is completely unknown because he refuses to 'sell out to commercialism' and hates gallery people and dealers. Its criminal. Hes amazing paintings are stacked in his shed.

The idea of a 'good career that leaves time for art' is really a dream - any job at all sucks time and energy. The advice I have for artists is to do something creative, such as commercial art, so that you are working with creative people - when you get away from art, and have a circle of 'mainstream' friends who don't 'get' art, it becomes increasingly difficult to maintian your own drive. (Though some disagree, saying that creative work 'uses up' their creativity).

I work as an arts journalist and drawing teacher, and I find that these things feed into my art and expose me to new ideas and creative people. Parenting and housekeeping suck an awful lot of my energy, but my husband respects my need to make art, which is very important.