Tax Stamp disappointment

I recently picked up an oldish Grimaud TdM (without stamp), which made me re-read coredil's wonderful thread about all the different editions :~) Thank you once again for that amazing resource coredil.

( For those that haven't seen it:- http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=57491 )

Buried in the middle of it all somewhere, is a discussion about tax stamps, and the following quote caught my eye:-

"According to Peter Endebrok http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/rrz...s-de/st-f.html the 1890 tax stamp has been used from 1890 to 1917 and from 1922 to 1940."

So, and here in lies the sadness, I have several decks complete with the April 12 1890 tax stamp that I have always regarded as coming from the 1890 - 1917 time slot, but now it seems they might actually be as young as 1940!

Now to some this might not matter a toss, but to me it most certainly does, because in my mind the appreciation of a deck is greatly enhanced by the mystique of it's age. This has everything to do with the deck's design qualities, condition / antique patina, all the way through to the consideration of how many hands have held it, how many games played with it, fortunes told with it, vibes still attached to it, etc., etc.

Perhaps I'm off my rocker, worrying about a potential age difference of 23 years! But quite a lot happened in those particular years. Anybody else feel a similar twinge of disappointment?

I totally agree that tax stamp is not the sole indicator of publishing dates. To avoid disappointment, I always do in-depth research first before picking up an antique-looking deck.

Actually, I find that looking at card backs is a better way to identify antique decks, since each period has a distinctive back pattern.

EnchantedShadow said:

I totally agree that tax stamp is not the sole indicator of publishing dates. To avoid disappointment, I always do in-depth research first before picking up an antique-looking deck.

Actually, I find that looking at card backs is a better way to identify antique decks, since each period has a distinctive back pattern.

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But even then you hear stories/theories about decks being printed and warehoused for long periods of time before eventually being sold; sometimes in a much newer style of box seemingly issued by the same firm, but under different management.

eg: my newly aquired Grimaud with a back like a 1930 Marteau, B.P.GRIMAUD.PARIS copyright, in an oversize green tuck flap box with circle and triangle, box titles etc., all in French, but complete with an all English LWB from J.Waddington. And even that I know J.M.Simon, owner of Ducale, subsequently bought out Waddington and Grimaud, these cards, box and book are all a total miss match!

Sumada said:

eg: my newly aquired Grimaud with a back like a 1930 Marteau, B.P.GRIMAUD.PARIS copyright, in an oversize green tuck flap box with circle and triangle, box titles etc., all in French, but complete with an all English LWB from J.Waddington. And even that I know J.M.Simon, owner of Ducale, subsequently bought out Waddington and Grimaud, these cards, box and book are all a total miss match!

Click to expand...

In this case, suppose they are genuine antique cards from the 1930s, may be the previous owner mistakenly put them in a wrong box? I can understand the frustration since I've also received old-looking cards came in newer boxes. Still, many unexpected things can happen when the cards are being circulated.

Sumada, in Kaplan Vol.2 he says between 1890-1945 four different tax stamp designs appeared on French playing cards (including tarot packs). During the period from 1921-40 no tax stamps were used. The first three are similar and have a head in profile facing left, though they each have different inscriptions. That last one, used from 1940-45 has an inscription surrounded by a wreath. It's on page 238 if you have the book, otherwise if you can read the inscription on yours and wanna post it I'll see what time frame it falls into. coredil's thread is good, but it wouldn't hurt to cross-reference with Kaplan to see what we come up with.

Thanks for the replies EnchantedShadow and Abrac :~)
Just to be clear, my Ancien TdM does NOT have a tax stamp - its only the Tulip/Dice variety, but I believe it has an old-ish back.
I'll return a little later with some scans of all my Etteillas and one Tarot Nouveau that do have stamps, and that TdM back.
Cheers...

Ok, here we go, I hope. Having some technical issues with file sizes!

All these stamps, and those in the next post, seem to be the same, although some are clearer than others. Can't find it now, but I seem to remember somewhere in coredil's thread somebody said Kaplan got it wrong about the stamps, but none have a wreath Abrac. Nevertheless, your opinion would be much appreciated.

Card backs shown to the left in each case.

Now the next lot, plus the Grimaud Ancien TdM that I mentioned at the start of this thread.

Also sharing tax stamp pictures of my Etteilla I and II for comparison purposes.

The Grimaud Etteilla is dated around 1890s, the dating of the Lismon Etteilla is unknown.

Per Kapaln, the ones that say Republique Française, Decret du 12 Avril 1890 are, in fact, from 1890-1917. I don't know where Peter Endebrok got his information, but according to Kaplan the later ones have different dates, and from 1921-1940 no tax stamps were used.

Per Kaplan, the ones reading Republique Française, Decision Ministerielle du 3 Fevrier 1917 were used between 1917-20. These I'd assume are more rare being used only three years compared with twenty-seven for the previous one.

The ones that say Republique Française, Decision Ministerielle du 30 Septembre 1920 were used for only one year from 1920-21. These are the rarest.

The last one has an inscription that reads Etat Français, Contributions Indirectes, France. It's surrounded by a wreath. It was used from 1940-45.

I've also got that BP Grimaud deck. There are some pictures of it in Kaplan Vol.1, page 138. There's no picture or description of the back, but the pictures of the fronts are exactly like mine and also like Sumada's picture, including the very narrow borders. He says it was published in 1930 so I'll wager it falls into that 1921-40 period when no stamp was used. My theory is it's a version that was sold in English-speaking countries, and a deal was made with Waddington to print the booklet. Mine didn't have a booklet or box so I can't offer anything for comparison. It's a wonderfully beautiful deck whenever it was made.