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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daikras View Post
The chariot in a love reading says, to me, that more control is needed over the current elements in your life before a stable relationship can be found. There has to be balance between the drive to find a mate and the drive to succeed in business, and the drive for pleasure and entertainment, and among all aspects of your life. Strive to achieve this balance, and don't overindulge, and you will have more success in your love life.
This makes sense, but wouldn't this be Chariot rx?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G6 View Post
This makes sense, but wouldn't this be Chariot rx?
Depends on whether the person uses reversals. gorgeousbutterfly never said. Not everyone does, or if they do, they don't always use it for every reading. In that case, the Chariot upright could indicate either having control and going forward or needing to take control or else you won't go forward. The context of the rest of the spread would indicate how to read it (if the person does not use reversals) as compared to whether the card was upright or reversed.

That said, Chariot rx for the future would likely mean a crash or complete loss of control--going nowhere, not that, in the future, one will find control or that you need to find control to move forward. Remember that the Chariot upright, like most 7's, is a challenge card. It only predicts victory or forward momentum *if* you are willing to take control, grab the reins, and focus.

GB is still on this forum. Maybe we'll get an answer as to whether reversals were used and/or how it all came out back in 2008.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
Depends on whether the person uses reversals. gorgeousbutterfly never said. Not everyone does, or if they do, they don't always use it for every reading. In that case, the Chariot upright could indicate either having control and going forward or needing to take control or else you won't go forward. The context of the rest of the spread would indicate how to read it (if the person does not use reversals) as compared to whether the card was upright or reversed.

That said, Chariot rx for the future would likely mean a crash or complete loss of control--going nowhere, not that, in the future, one will find control or that you need to find control to move forward. Remember that the Chariot upright, like most 7's, is a challenge card. It only predicts victory or forward momentum *if* you are willing to take control, grab the reins, and focus.

GB is still on this forum. Maybe we'll get an answer as to whether reversals were used and/or how it all came out back in 2008.
Yes, the original post is for a love reading, but doesn't say much about it other than possibly meaning the OP attracted controlling men. I thought the later interpretation was different in needing more control over your life as the stumbling block to finding love, but your interp above is different as well, which could indicate neither party is taking enough control for the relationship to go anywhere. That one I'm not sure about because the Chariot seems more about having control and progress, right? There are lots of threads here on the Chariot in love relationships. It's an interesting card that seems to have many opposing meanings for love and love relationships. In the imagery there is that struggle/duality/being of two minds or conflict/friction/work needed.
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What will you do after the ride is over?


Quote:
Originally Posted by G6 View Post
It's an interesting card that seems to have many opposing meanings for love and love relationships. In the imagery there is that struggle/duality/being of two minds or conflict/friction/work needed.
The thing you have to remember about the Chariot is that it is not a "destination" card. It's about getting to a destination. A chariot has three parts: the chariot itself, the horses, the driver. It has no purpose and does nothing if those three are not together. Once together, it goes full speed ahead to where it needs to go. Then it's done. The driver leaves, the horses are removed, the chariot is put away. So when the Chariot comes up in a love relationship reading it is about how you go on that journey to "wherever." For this to successfully happen, everyone needs to come together. And, most importantly, *someone* needs to have a vision and a destination in mind, and be accepted (by all the other parts) as being in control. If all the other parts work with that charioteer, then nothing will stop that armored vehicle. It will speed ahead to victory.

What this means in this particular situation, as I would read it (the Chariot repeatedly coming up past/present/future), would be that there person enjoys the rush of new relationships. Whoever the charioteer is (her or the men she picks) for the relationship, she enjoys having that vision, focus, and determination to get somewhere. BUT likely has no plans for anything after that. So, she enjoys that coming together of all the parts working perfectly--and the fun, fast ride it achieves. But, as of this point (2008), she didn't want to deal with whatever happens after victory was achieved. So, she just moved on to the next chariot ride.

You see, Victory isn't the end of the story. It's the beginning. And that makes the Chariot the way you travel to the start of things. Like settling down, having a steady job, being part of a community, etc. Putting it another way: what will you do after the ride is over? Do you have a plan for that?
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I am guessing that 7s (like Chariot the VII) are challenging because they are "earthly perfection" (quote from an online Rabbi talking about Kabbala numerology). Maybe this is like "winning" at love or war but not necessarily achieving higher goals.

(I am still trying to reconcile Tarot 7s with other 7 symbolism.)

In this case, the Chariot is the outward, visible, temporary achievement.
Strength VIII would be more inward, unseen, and enduring "world of Grace."

I think this is Waite's commentary; anyway, it goes with a Rider-Waite deck:

07 The Chariot

An erect and princely figure carrying a drawn sword and corresponding, broadly speaking, to the traditional description which I have given in the first part. On the shoulders of the victorious hero are supposed to be the Urim and Thummim. He has led captivity captive; he is conquest on all planes – in the mind, in science, in progress, in certain trials of initiation. He has thus replied to the sphinx, and it is on this account that I have accepted the variation of Éliphas Lévi; two sphinxes thus draw his chariot. He is above all things triumph in the mind.

It is to be understood for this reason (a) that the question of the sphinx is concerned with a Mystery of Nature and not of the world of Grace, to which the charioteer could offer no answer; (b) that the planes of his conquest are manifest or external and not within himself; (c) that the liberation which he effects may leave himself in the bondage of the logical understanding; (d) that the tests of initiation through which he has passed in triumph are to be understood physically or rationally; and (e) that if he came to the pillars of that Temple between which the High Priestess is seated, he could not open the scroll called Tora, nor if she questioned him could he answer. He is not hereditary royalty and he is not priesthood.
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Cool Don't bite off more than you can chew?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelie View Post
I am guessing that 7s (like Chariot the VII) are challenging because they are "earthly perfection" (quote from an online Rabbi talking about Kabbala numerology). Maybe this is like "winning" at love or war but not necessarily achieving higher goals.
The Chariot (at least with Waite and such) is the sign of Cancer the crab, and crabs travel from one "plane" to the next very quickly. Water to land and back again. Thus, the Chariot may assist the person in moving from Earthly perfection to something higher...but it, in itself, is not one or the other. And there we have Waite saying "conquest on all planes..." which I take to support this view. The Chariot is the "armor" (shell and wheels) that allows you to reach a place swiftly and in safety. But, as Waite says: an "easy win" in a physical initiation test (a show of strength on the battlefield) doesn't mean we've won over the hearts and minds of those we've conquered. That takes a whole other skill set.

There-in lies the challenge of the Chariot and the 7's I think, a challenge of humility. Because too many assume that winning the war means "mission accomplished." But controlling contradictions (in order to win) doesn't mean you've solved them. We love figuring out a puzzle and succeeding...but we hate admitting that such easy or brilliant or cool wins aren't usually "mission accomplished." That there is more to do...more that won't be so easy or fast. We need to accept this, however, in order to move into the 8's where we will work within limitations toward a slower but more lasting success.

I think all the Tarot 7's carry some of this challenge. The challenge not to bite off more than we can chew, simply because the first bite seems so easy to swallow.
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I don't necessarily disagree, and I'm sure you have arrived at the more accepted tarot meanings--but this online Rabbi said it's the 8 that goes to the higher plane. And that's the numerology I previously used in Cartomancy.

And then I see the swiftly flying staves on the 8 of Wands.

Now it could be there are different systems that don't reconcile--which is fine, too.

Or there could be different expressions in different realms or contexts; for example, I once heard that Friday the 13th on the Egyptian calendar was when the Angel of Death passed over, being the 14th on the Jewish calendar, when Israel began the Exodus.

??? An enigma wrapped in a mystery or just my old worn out mind ???
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7's are getting on the escalator, 8's are the escalator


Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelie View Post
I don't necessarily disagree, and I'm sure you have arrived at the more accepted tarot meanings--but this online Rabbi said it's the 8 that goes to the higher plane.
Actually, I'm agreeing with you. 8's are the escalator to that higher plane; 7's are getting to that escalator and ON IT. I know a lot of people who don't know how to navigate escalators. They're scary and you don't know when to take a step. What I'm saying is that the 7's challenge is not just being able to figure out how to take that step, but not assuming that, having taken that step, you're already at the top of the escalator. A lot of people are all proud and saying, "Hey, I got on the escalator! Mission accomplished!" but it's not accomplished till that escalator gets you to the top...is it?

Does that make sense and satisfy the rabbi's numerical definitions with what the tarot seems to be numerically saying?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelie View Post
And then I see the swiftly flying staves on the 8 of Wands.
That's running up the escalator. It's moving you up and you're going in that same direction...double the speed
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Yes, thanks so much.

I usually have a delay between reading and responding to your posts (7) to understanding them (8).
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